Optimise Coaching Sessions: Balancing Support and Challenge

John: 00:00:01

Hey, Angie,

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Angie: Hey, John.

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John: have you ever had that experience

with a client where sometimes it

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just feels like they love showing

up for a chat rather than really

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making any progress with you?

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Angie: yeah, definitely.

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Run, run, run.

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Go ahead.

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John: Yeah, I think I have to, I

thought it would be good for us to

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discuss that and the client journey and

experience and really, why it matters

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so much for us to not fall into that

trap of comfortable, pleasant, nice

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conversations, but we're actually making

sure that our clients are getting results.

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Angie: Super valid.

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Absolutely.

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Let's do it.

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John: Let's do it.

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Let's open the clinic.

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So, Angie, this is on my mind

as to, the whole client journey.

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And I can't remember what triggered

this, this sort of thought for me, I

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must've seen something that someone

posted about, about customer journeys.

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I think.

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Well, what's that like

for coaching clients?

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Because I think clients can end up

having very different experiences.

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What really matters in coaching is that

the clients are getting transformation.

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They are becoming bigger and different,

and they're progressing rather than

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they just get to show up and have a nice

conversation with their coach each week.

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Angie: That's so funny because the

first thing that jumps into my head is

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back when I, I used to work for a, as

we know, right, John and I have worked

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for various coaching companies and.

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one of the companies I worked

for, I dunno what it was,

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let's just call it $500, right?

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Was the, was the cost of a session and,

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The trainer, you know, used to say, you

need to challenge these clients, right?

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We're not sitting and

having a $500 cup of coffee.

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That statement has resonated forever

and never, and it, it, funny enough,

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has become a bit of a checkpoint for me.

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Like after a session, I might

even say to myself at times.

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Was that a $500, whatever

that number is, right?

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I'm just using that number.

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But was that a $500 cup of coffee?

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or was that an impactful, conversation or

a session, but yeah, so it's just funny

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that you, you brought that up today.

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John: I think it is, it is one of, it is

one of those things that we do sometimes

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have clients who we perhaps connect

with a little more than some others.

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That's life.

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You know, we connect more deeply

with some people than others.

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and we may even look forward more to some

particular client's calls than others.

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We, we've discussed that before,

but, but we didn't so much discuss

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it from the perspective of there

may be clients who are like, you

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might think in other circumstances

would be really good pals for you.

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but that's not what the

coaching relationship is

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really supposed to be about.

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And I thought, can you be friends

with your coaching clients?

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We, we have discussed that on,

on another episode, but I, I

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think it's come a few times.

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I, and I do think it's a bit of a.

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Yes, but maybe after you've worked

together, if you get on really well.

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because otherwise that is going

to screw up the dynamic of the

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coaching situation, and that's

really what we're talking about.

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So it, it's a comfortable trap to

fall into that you like talking to the

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client and you get on with them and

they're paying you money for this as

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well, but they like talking to you too.

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And they probably don't really want

to mention so much that well was,

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they're getting some value from

friendship and good conversations.

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They're not really.

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Getting what they probably came to you

for, which is transformation and progress.

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Angie: Yeah, I, you know,

it's so true and it's so easy.

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Especially, you know, like you said

earlier, you know, we've talked about

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this a little bit, like long-term clients.

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And there's that familiarity.

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And is that working against you or

does that, you know, work against you?

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It makes your job actually

harder and not easier.

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You know, complacency

and all of the things.

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But if you go back, if we go back to

the beginning of the relationship,

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you know, I think that we have to

set that standard for ourselves.

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And also, here's the thing, I

don't know if we should decide.

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What an impactful session looks like, and

I think that can change the conversation.

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So here's what I mean.

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Briefly, I've had a couple of

conver, a couple of clients over

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the years that did not want hard.

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Direct pushing.

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They, or, you know, probing.

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They did.

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They didn't want that.

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It didn't work for them.

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It was, it had to be much more subtle.

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And if anybody's ever heard me talk or

met me in person, you know that one of

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the things that you, words you would

never use to describe me is subtle.

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So, but that taught me

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John: Softball may be, but not softball.

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Angie: I am supple.

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It's true, but the truth of the matter

is like, you know, meeting people where

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they're at and then elevating that

at that moment I think is important.

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But I can't be exactly the

same with every single client.

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And I, and I do think that some people

respond better with a softer approach.

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That isn't as scary because the

last thing we want somebody to do

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is run like their head is on fire.

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But we also know that when there's change

on the horizon, Mike, it's looming.

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It's sitting there.

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There's resistance.

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We know that.

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So some clients need the harder

push, and some clients really

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just need a more subtle approach

to the probing that might feel.

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Or sound a little more friendlier,

a little more conversational.

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So that, that was just, you know,

something I wanted to highlight.

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John: it's interesting for, because

that, that, that's very relevant.

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I I, I have two clients at the

moment who sit at either each end of

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the spectrum you're talking about.

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There one is like he wants to.

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Go deeper on stuff, but he needs

to be gently coaxed into it.

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He can't just be confronted.

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we're gonna have the conversation.

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He wants to be challenged, but not in

a sort of in your face kind of way.

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And another client at the other end

of that who's like, give me feedback.

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Give me, you know, give me everything.

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Raw and dirty.

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I want, no, I just want

everything you got.

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Throw it at me and then we'll deal it.

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And even with that permission, I,

I said bit like, he's saying, oh,

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you're telling me everything here.

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And I said, well, look, the, they have

to draw a line somewhere between giving

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you feedback and, and just beating you

up because I'm not here to do that.

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I'm, I'm not here to, I'm

not here to discourage you.

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I want to challenge you.

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It's like, yes, I can give you more,

but I'm also very aware of my goal

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is not to give you so much that you.

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Angie: Yeah.

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John: That you feel like packing

in or that we, that we, I'm

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not here to test your limit.

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I'm really, you know, I'm here willing

to challenge you and make sure that

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you get challenged the way you want to.

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But, you know, this, this isn't, this

isn't a, a sex dungeon where, you

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know, you get the master and slave,

but you get the master and slave.

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Angie: Where'd you, where?

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And ladies and gentlemen,

we'll be right back.

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John: So, yeah, I have, I have a

friend who's a dominatrix, I would

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say a professional dominatrix.

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She's not a, she's not a prostitute.

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She doesn't have sex with them.

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but these, these guys pay her, they pay

her money to be mean to them, to punish

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Angie: So I'm in the wrong, so

basically I'm in the wrong industry.

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No, I'm sorry.

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I, I don't mean, I don't mean to poke fun,

but I'm gonna tell all of you listening.

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I had no idea what Jock was

gonna say today, and I'm just

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a little surprised right now.

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That's all.

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I'm just enjoying this open,

really open conversation.

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I'm sorry.

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Please continue.

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John: So look, this is, this is a

friend who's also a professional

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speaker and she talks about this.

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She's written books about, that sort of

mentality, that lessons, lessons that

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could be related from that experience

that are very valuable and empowering.

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So, you know, it's, it's not,

not just being dirty here.

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I'm, I'm really just talking

about, the goal is not to beat

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them up or to whip them into shape.

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even if, even if they're asking for it,

even if they're paying you the money,

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you, you're not trying to make them small

or you're not trying to, diminish them.

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You, you still need to have that balance

of encouragement and push as well.

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Even if they're asking you

to, alright, alright, give

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it to me powder and dirty or.

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Is let, let's not go further

down that one, but, but you

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get what I'm saying here.

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These, these are,

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Angie: I, I think I'm ing right now.

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I blush.

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John: these, these are these kind

kind of extremes of like one person

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just like, all right, go for it.

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Throw everything.

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You gotta me.

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And, you know, we'll tough it all out, Mr.

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Resilience and on all of this.

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Great.

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But the other guy was like,

alright, help me do it.

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And, and there's a, there's

a a, a scale in between.

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There's a, what's a whole spectrum in

between of, of where people are at.

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So yeah, working with each

client is gonna be different.

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And guess you wanna meet the needs to

some point, but you still need to stay.

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You with that, you still need to have

permission when you go forward with that.

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and you still want to make sure that

you're not just challenging people for

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the sake of challenging them or, or

not pushing them hard enough because

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you want to keep them comfortable,

and not have them saying, oh,

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actually this would make me a little

uncomfortable Sometimes we have to be

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willing to have to say the things that.

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They may not want to hear because they're

there as our client, not there as to, to

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like us with, they're not our fan club.

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Angie: Well, I mean, I think that

there's a, an art form to that.

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You know, I think that we as

coaches need to be nimble enough to.

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Have it maybe not always be easier, right?

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Or not always be more difficult.

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I think even the person who's like, you

know, as you said, give it to me dirty.

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I don't even know what to say.

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But even with those people

kind of keeping some, level of.

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I don't wanna say autonomy, but some shift

of energy in each of the sessions because

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that helps it remain a little bit more

novel and not become overly comfortable.

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At the end of it though, we also have

to be able to, how do I wanna say this?

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right.

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We have to be impact driven

and if there, like, so for me.

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If I feel like there's a little, maybe

too much conversation and you know the

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person is easily distracted, right?

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They start to, I mean, we talk about

one thing, they go to something else,

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there's avoidance and all of the things.

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I really have no problem, you know?

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Hey, this, I think we talked about

this a year ago by now, you know, at

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the end of every session I always ask

a question about the session, a rating

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of some kind, so that I have an idea of

what is really resonating, and I will

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check in and say, so occasionally, you

know, if this could be more impactful

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for you, how could we shift, right?

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How could we shift these conversations?

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Do you feel like, 'cause some

people do, they want a cheerleader,

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they need the cheerleader.

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Some people want it to be, you know,

a certain way, come, you know, come

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at me, challenge me all you want.

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And it will resonate differently

with different people.

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But even while we're being

like, say, let's just say

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friendly, we're not friends and

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we always have to keep that in mind.

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We have to keep in mind that sometimes,

you know how, like we just have,

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sometimes we have easier clients.

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More difficult clients.

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When I think of a more difficult

client, it's not that they're a

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difficult person per se, but they're

very tough to get to the core.

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Like there's so much more probing

because they're very comfortable giving

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you right or surface level answers.

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So I have to probe, I have to keep going.

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I have to find the nuggets right,

of gold or you know, whatever it is.

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So.

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John: that in a way of s

slamming your fist down.

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Like, tell me now,

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Angie: Yeah,

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John: it's not how you do it.

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Angie: you know, I recently

had a newer client say to me,

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you know, I don't understand.

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I feel like you're looking for bad,

like, and said it to me that way.

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And I said, I'm not looking for

bad, I'm looking for the challenges.

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Right.

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Because we're having a

very surface conversation.

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That's not the goal here, right?

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The goal isn't to just have an

overarching, how was your week or

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you know, your month or whatever,

and just have a conversation.

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We need to, if you want there to be some

kind of an outcome, there has to be, I

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don't know if it's a stress, but we have

to apply levels of pressure to keep it

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out of that comfort zone and you know,

maybe that's just part of what they did.

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They don't understand

what coaching actually is.

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John: yeah, it, they might be

thinking that it's almost like a

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psych evaluation that they have

to pass or, or not fully, no.

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Maybe, maybe not.

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Always fully trusting that what's

being said on the coaching calls

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is actually gonna be confidential.

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I mean, so you don't necessarily know, or.

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Some people are, are not familiar

with actually having those safe,

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confidential environments where they

can open up and, and where somebody

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is holding that space for them.

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So, you know, there's, there's stuff

to talk about and address there, but

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it's not getting up in someone's face

saying, tell me everything right now.

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it is like working with

them in the right way to.

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Uncover what is actually gonna help them.

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Help help them grow because

yeah, surface conversations

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are not gonna get you very far.

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And sometimes clients, sometimes

clients will recognize that, that

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they're not going deep enough and

they want to be challenged further.

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I've had that with clients

I've worked with as well.

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It's like, we can go deeper here.

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And you have, I ask permission.

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Can we, do I have your permission to

challenge you a bit harder on that then?

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Because I think.

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Sometimes it's that think of, you don't

always want to say stuff to clients

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because they might react negatively.

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And this is where you would say, Hey,

look, there's something I wanna say

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here, and it's probably gonna be a little

uncomfortable and challenging for you.

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Am I, am I okay to say it or would

you prefer, actually, I'm not

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sure I can handle that right now.

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Let's, or, or find a way to find a

way to ease into this because you have

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to check in and meet the mother app.

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Angie: I did that last week.

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I mean, I have some clients that

will ask me, I know this is not, it's

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not directly on topic, but they'll

say, Hey, so what do you think?

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And we all know, I don't really like to

share a perspective, you know, because

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I know that if they're asking, they're

looking for like some kind of validation.

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Not so much direction, but I navigate it.

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And last week.

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I was very direct with

two different clients.

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One of them did ask and I told them

something that I said, listen, I know

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this is going to sound uncomfortable,

but I have a trained ear and sometimes

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your rate of speech is increasing and

you know, it's hard to understand you.

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I get that, you know, and I, you

know, I wanna soften and say I get it

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because hey, I'm from the Northeast.

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I speak quickly.

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My Northeastern accent comes out

when I speak more quickly, and then

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I'm just not as impactful, right?

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So I was trying to soften it and the

other client, it was, You know, oh,

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you know, I, their perspective was,

oh, I think that sometimes I can be

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perceived as difficult or overly direct.

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And I said, well, if I might, you

know, let, can I share an experience?

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And she said, yeah.

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And I told her, I said, you and I

had a conversation and you said, you

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know, deep de, deep de, you know,

you're looking for the negative.

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You're looking for the bad.

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And I said, when you said that to me, if

I was not confident in what I do, I might

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have been, I might have been taken aback.

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Like it was a little bit

like reprimand ish, you know?

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And I was honest.

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And of course after the session

I'm saying to myself, you know, is

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it really okay to be that direct?

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And I said, you know what?

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Yes it is.

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I can't be uncomfortable because

of their discomfort, right?

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: 00:16:41

So I asked for permission.

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: 00:16:43

I got it.

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: 00:16:44

I didn't have to, you know, I

didn't have them sign off and

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: 00:16:47

say, you sure this is okay?

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: 00:16:48

'cause I don't wanna trigger you.

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: 00:16:49

But sometimes I do think it's worth

shocking thing, you know, but not making

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: 00:16:55

it up and making it more brash in some

way, but that, that will, that will change

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: 00:17:01

an entire conversation or relationship

when you are, effective and when you're

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: 00:17:07

being more direct with people and less

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: 00:17:10

John: I, I would say so.

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: 00:17:11

Yeah.

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: 00:17:12

And, and a specific example of that, that

client who I said was like the other end

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: 00:17:15

of the spectrum, being very, don't treat

me gen, treat me gently, kind of thing.

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: 00:17:19

Who has given permission to push a

bit harder and go deeper on things.

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: 00:17:24

we've been doing that in, in a really

constructive way, and I would say that,

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: 00:17:29

Angie: it the how John, right.

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: 00:17:30

For us it's like you can do,

you can be very direct with like

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: 00:17:35

what you said in a, it's how.

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: 00:17:38

You artistically as a coach

do that probing that's going

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: 00:17:43

to make the difference.

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: 00:17:46

John: And so one of the thing, one of

the things I particularly had recognized

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: 00:17:48

was that there was, an opportunity

for a deeper level of presence.

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: 00:17:53

And so we were doing some work on that

and, and it did push it a bit harder.

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: 00:17:56

And I will say, on, on the last call

that we were on, I've never seen

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: 00:18:01

him looking so happy in present.

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: 00:18:03

And it was like, and I and I, I brought

it up on the call and like, yeah, that

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: 00:18:08

wouldn't have happened if we hadn't

made that push to go a bit deeper.

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: 00:18:12

But it's not just that from, from a

coach's perspective, your clients are your

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: 00:18:19

best advertisement for, for what you do.

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: 00:18:22

They are your best re your best

referral source a lot of the time.

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: 00:18:27

And if they're just having a

nice time chatting with you.

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: 00:18:31

That doesn't really, it sounds

like, oh, I'm looking for a coach.

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: 00:18:34

You have a coach, don't

you tell me about that.

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: 00:18:35

And they're like, oh yeah, we

have really great conversations.

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: 00:18:38

I look forward to the calls.

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: 00:18:39

My coach is lovely.

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: 00:18:41

Really like working with them.

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: 00:18:43

It's like, all right.

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: 00:18:43

And what, what's changed for you since

we, since you started doing the coaching?

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: 00:18:47

Oh, well, we had some goals, but you

know, we more or less just sort of just

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: 00:18:51

get, get together and chat each week.

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: 00:18:53

Now you think is that person who's

talking to them gonna think, oh

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: 00:18:56

right, I need to work with that coach.

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: 00:18:58

No, no, they're not good.

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: 00:19:01

They, well, good for you.

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: 00:19:02

but, you know, I, I would want

something a bit more from my coach.

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: 00:19:05

but you get the other, other side of that,

of, someone's, someone says, oh, hey, hey.

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: 00:19:11

I've been working, working

with my coach for ages.

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: 00:19:13

My life was transformed.

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: 00:19:14

my, my business results are

more than I even expected.

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: 00:19:18

I've seen so big changes in

my professional and personal

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: 00:19:21

life, and it's come from.

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: 00:19:24

It's all come from working with this coach

and you know, great to talk to and all

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: 00:19:27

that, but I also get really challenged

in my sessions and, it is been worth

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: 00:19:32

every penny and more for doing that.

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: 00:19:35

You think that's a bit of a better advert

for your coaching, don't you think?

364

: 00:19:39

Angie: Yeah.

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: 00:19:40

Yeah.

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: 00:19:41

I always think about it, like, I can't

even look at it in terms of like, what

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: 00:19:45

would I, how would I want coaching?

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: 00:19:46

Because how I receive coaching,

it needs to like, it, it's, you,

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: 00:19:50

you and I have talked about this.

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: 00:19:52

It really needs to be direct.

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: 00:19:54

It doesn't have to hurt per se, but

because I'm, I am, I'm, I'm so highly

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: 00:20:00

self-aware and I, I think that if we keep.

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: 00:20:05

That in mind that not

everybody is number one.

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: 00:20:08

And the impact, right?

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: 00:20:10

The the goal is to have impact

and every single session

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: 00:20:14

isn't going to be skyrockets.

377

: 00:20:16

There are gonna be sessions that

might feel a little benign, a

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: 00:20:20

little vanilla, and we might say

to ourselves, as coaches, we might

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: 00:20:23

question like, did I challenge enough?

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: 00:20:25

And we should be asking

ourselves that anyway, right?

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: 00:20:27

Even on the greatest obsessions

where somebody is like, oh my

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: 00:20:31

gosh, Angie, I never realized that.

383

: 00:20:33

That's a great win and we wanna,

you know, use that as kind of the

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: 00:20:37

springboard into what comes next.

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: 00:20:39

But even when that's happened,

especially when it's not, we

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: 00:20:43

need to do that bit of analysis.

387

: 00:20:45

Did I get lazy today?

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: 00:20:47

Did I just allow the call

to be conversational?

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: 00:20:50

Because I don't know, I didn't have

the mental, emotional or, or, you

390

: 00:20:53

know, physical bandwidth to show up.

391

: 00:20:56

You know, I, I have

definitely experienced that.

392

: 00:21:01

So, you know, I have some rules

that I've set for myself, some

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: 00:21:04

boundaries, like the work night before.

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: 00:21:07

I don't go out anywhere.

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: 00:21:08

I don't do anything.

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: 00:21:09

I go to bed early so I can wake up early.

397

: 00:21:11

There's practices that I keep in

place for me because I know, you know,

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: 00:21:17

John knows I had a headache today.

399

: 00:21:19

So I'm like, oh, John, how are you, Angie?

400

: 00:21:22

Oh my God.

401

: 00:21:22

I have a splitting

headache, which is now gone.

402

: 00:21:24

I had some caffeine.

403

: 00:21:25

I feel a little bit better, but point is.

404

: 00:21:28

You know, sometimes we have to really

check ourselves before going in.

405

: 00:21:32

Am I ready to.

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: 00:21:35

Be the best coach I can

be for this person today.

407

: 00:21:38

Do I have the bandwidth in all

of my energy spaces to provide

408

: 00:21:44

that or am I gonna be lazy?

409

: 00:21:46

And the answer is no.

410

: 00:21:48

Can't be lazy.

411

: 00:21:49

Doesn't matter if you

have a headache, right?

412

: 00:21:51

You still have to get up and,

and do it and not allow things

413

: 00:21:55

to be, it's just a waste, you

know, not be a wasted opportunity.

414

: 00:22:00

John: Yeah, look, I, I've seen, you may

or may or may not have heard of this, but

415

: 00:22:04

there's these, like gig economy kind of

works jobs now where people are putting

416

: 00:22:09

themselves on the market to be a hug

buddy and they'll just go around and, and

417

: 00:22:14

hug or cut, cuddle someone for a while.

418

: 00:22:17

Not, nothing, nothing rude

about anything that is

419

: 00:22:20

Angie: All right.

420

: 00:22:20

It's not sexually

421

: 00:22:22

John: It's not at all sexual.

422

: 00:22:23

it is, it is, you know, phy people

wanna be, feel, touch and, and feel

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: 00:22:27

loved and cared about and, and hugged

and, and, it's like, that's great,

424

: 00:22:33

but that's not what coaching is.

425

: 00:22:36

And so co coaching, coaching isn't,

sounds like you are given that sort of

426

: 00:22:41

emotional, virtual hug kind of thing, but

it's not really what coaching is about.

427

: 00:22:46

it's not what it's for.

428

: 00:22:49

But, he's, it is more

about challenging them.

429

: 00:22:51

It's more about helping

to grow, to develop.

430

: 00:22:52

Sometimes, sometimes a bit of that

caring is needed in a coaching session,

431

: 00:22:58

Angie: Oh gosh.

432

: 00:22:59

Yeah.

433

: 00:23:00

John: It's, it's not just

there to give them that warm

434

: 00:23:02

huggy feeling the whole time.

435

: 00:23:04

and that shouldn't be what

they're paying for either.

436

: 00:23:07

And, and I think this is a trap that

coaches some do sometimes fall into

437

: 00:23:11

of, you know, this, the, the velvet

trap really of it is just, it's nice.

438

: 00:23:16

So I'm helping the client because

they have this nice environment

439

: 00:23:19

where they can talk you right.

440

: 00:23:21

It's, that's not coaching,

it's more counseling.

441

: 00:23:24

So creating that sort of space just

for them, you want to, you want them

442

: 00:23:28

to have that and, and more If you're

not really helping them to expand

443

: 00:23:34

and to transform in positive ways,

you're not really coaching them.

444

: 00:23:39

So, so I think that you

have to look at it from

445

: 00:23:41

Angie: that's

446

: 00:23:41

John: as like, this is your results,

447

: 00:23:44

Angie: I think it's situational.

448

: 00:23:45

I think it depends.

449

: 00:23:46

Like I've been, you know, I've worked

with some clients, and again, I don't

450

: 00:23:50

think time has anything to do with it,

but when you work with people over long

451

: 00:23:53

periods of time, you happen to go through

life cycles and seasons with them.

452

: 00:23:58

It could be a birth, it could

be a death, it could be a

453

: 00:24:00

divorce, it could be a marriage.

454

: 00:24:02

And I think sometimes in those harder.

455

: 00:24:06

In the harder times

when they are emotional.

456

: 00:24:08

Again, we're not counselors,

we're not therapists.

457

: 00:24:10

And some of you may be those

things and if you incorporate that

458

: 00:24:13

into your sessions, have at it.

459

: 00:24:15

But if you're not licensed in any of

those ways, you can still be empathetic.

460

: 00:24:19

You can still say, Hey, I'm

sorry that your cat died.

461

: 00:24:23

I'm, I'm, I'm just not

being extreme like that.

462

: 00:24:25

It's a family member.

463

: 00:24:26

John: Sure, but those are instances.

464

: 00:24:29

Angie: Correct.

465

: 00:24:30

John: within the coaching journey.

466

: 00:24:32

Angie: Yeah.

467

: 00:24:32

John: the coaching journey itself.

468

: 00:24:34

And, and so that, that's, that's really

more sort of the overall big picture here

469

: 00:24:38

of yeah, there's gonna be elements of

this, that, and the other that come into

470

: 00:24:41

your coaching, but ultimately the coaching

is of journey of progress and expansion

471

: 00:24:46

and transformation and if those things

472

: 00:24:48

Angie: It shouldn't be

the overarching theme.

473

: 00:24:51

John: yeah.

474

: 00:24:51

Angie: a hug, buddy.

475

: 00:24:52

I wanna hug buddy.

476

: 00:24:54

John: It sounds good.

477

: 00:24:55

Right?

478

: 00:24:56

Angie: I'm like, I need a hug.

479

: 00:24:57

I wanna hug

480

: 00:24:57

John: Yeah, I'm just gonna lay

down, lay down on my bed for a bit.

481

: 00:25:00

Someone just come and cuddle up to me

for a while and I, but not for too long.

482

: 00:25:04

'cause it needs to be, some,

needs to be someone who stays cool

483

: 00:25:07

because I, I get super hot anyway.

484

: 00:25:09

not in that way.

485

: 00:25:10

Not in that way.

486

: 00:25:11

Angie: No, I know what you mean.

487

: 00:25:12

I mean, I'm a, I'm a, you know me,

I'm the human furnace, so I get it.

488

: 00:25:16

John: Yeah.

489

: 00:25:17

I'm like that I, I run hot, but.

490

: 00:25:19

Angie: levels of challenge and really,

again, you know, you've heard me say

491

: 00:25:24

this over and over, like the PACE

car, we have to know or maybe look

492

: 00:25:28

for opportunities where we're not

splashing ice cold water on people.

493

: 00:25:32

That is not enjoyable for anybody.

494

: 00:25:35

Although I guess there might be

some people that are like, I love

495

: 00:25:37

my annual polar plunge, go for it.

496

: 00:25:39

But in general, nobody

likes the shock of that.

497

: 00:25:43

You know, like in the morning

it's 5:00 AM and you're stepping

498

: 00:25:45

into a nice cold shower.

499

: 00:25:47

Nobody wants that.

500

: 00:25:48

So I don't think we wanna create

a resistant environment either.

501

: 00:25:52

So we as coaches have to

navigate and read the energy.

502

: 00:25:59

Of the, you know, of the conversation,

of the session and, and, and not

503

: 00:26:04

just check in before and after,

you know, be nimble during the,

504

: 00:26:08

the session and be able to say.

505

: 00:26:10

Is this becoming a little bit too

conversational and how, how do I get it

506

: 00:26:18

out of that if I'm actively aware of it?

507

: 00:26:20

You know, I think, you know,

there's ways we can do that.

508

: 00:26:23

We can talk more about that

later or at a different session.

509

: 00:26:26

But yeah, I think, yeah, I

510

: 00:26:28

John: not doing therapy.

511

: 00:26:30

You're not, you're not

their drill sergeant.

512

: 00:26:31

You're not their mama.

513

: 00:26:33

You, you're the coach.

514

: 00:26:34

And so sh show, show, show

up, show up as their coach.

515

: 00:26:39

Be, be the coach for them.

516

: 00:26:41

But do consider that, that the customer

client experience, that your, that

517

: 00:26:46

your clients have is the bedrock of

your business, and you want that to be.

518

: 00:26:51

Something that you would be happy for?

519

: 00:26:53

Know, you sort think if my clients

ever talk to somebody about their

520

: 00:26:56

experience of working with me, the

likelihood is those people, if they

521

: 00:26:59

think about coach, they think, oh

wow, I need to work with your coach.

522

: 00:27:02

That should be what we're,

what we're aiming for as

523

: 00:27:05

Angie: sure.

524

: 00:27:08

John: Cool.

525

: 00:27:08

All right.

526

: 00:27:09

Well I think there's

been a good, a good chat.

527

: 00:27:11

Angie's been lovely to get together

with you again and we'll be back more

528

: 00:27:14

soon with some more coach clinic.