Coaching Reality Check: Addressing Industry Slowdowns (That's Slow-business!)

John: 00:00:00

Angie,

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Angie: John.

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John: have you heard what's

been coming down the grapevine?

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Angie: Ooh, the grapevine.

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Nope.

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John: It is not grapes,

I can tell you that.

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There's some things going on, and I

don't know if you have any friends

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who are working for those bigger

coaching firms, but things seem to

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be slowing down and it seems to be

creating a little bit of panic to

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people, and I thought, Hmm, maybe that's

something you and I could talk about.

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Angie: Oh, I definitely think we should.

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'cause yes, I didn't know which grape

bond you were talking about, but I

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definitely have heard some grumblings.

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John: Well, let's see if we can address

some of the things that are going on

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there and perhaps give a little bit

of forward thinking, planning to the

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people who may be finding themselves

in those panic stations right now.

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Angie: Good idea.

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I'm there.

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so tell me though, so what have you

heard, what is the overall challenge

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that you've been hearing about?

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John: Well, it's not, it's not new

because I've been hearing this in

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bits and pieces from various people

for the last six months or more that,

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a lot of people who've gone into

working for these bigger coaching

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organizations have not been getting,

have not been getting enough work.

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Some of them to the point where

they've left and gone and done jobs.

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it's not the kind of job you

have to quit, it's like they'll,

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they'll send you clients if you

are, if you're on their list.

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but if you're not getting anything

come through, then what's the point?

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So many other people have just

moved on to other things and.

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Understandably so, but undoubtedly

there was a bunch of people who were

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still doing pretty well from them

and not so keen to move on, and even

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those, even those people now are saying

things have been slowing down a lot.

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Now there could be a bunch of reasons

for this, and certainly no IT economy is

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part of the reason for this international

trade is part of the reason for this.

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And other people, other operators

in the industry may be partly

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responsible as well, but the end

result is the same that the work is

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drying up in, in these organizations.

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That may change, but it's not

looking good at the moment.

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Angie: Well, so really quick, I think

something you and I have discussed and

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we've definitely spoken to is that there

is a lot of competition in the market.

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So it's not just competition with

individual sole proprietor coaches, right.

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It's.

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People who say, oh, and

now I'm a coaching company.

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So there is that.

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There's a lot of, there's

been a lot of absorption and

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it's like any other situation.

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I live in the desert.

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We get a lot of rain at one time.

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It pulls for a while, right?

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Until it can slowly seep into the ground.

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And I think that's maybe

more of where we're at.

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I think, you know, organizations

that hire external coaching

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companies or individuals are.

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Also shifting, right?

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They're expanding their

talent development.

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I'm air quoting this.

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Nobody can see me, but you know, their

talent development teams so that they're

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not always paying the external, right?

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So there's a couple of different things.

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It's, I, I feel like there's,

you know, organizations

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doing internal work and also.

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Saturation, but the question, right, that

everybody who's listening is probably

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asking themselves, so what do you do?

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Right?

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We can't change the problem.

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and we can try and come up with

what, you know, a solution, right?

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But, you know, there are people I know

that are very reliant on working for

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a company that's providing clients

to them, on a consistent basis.

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And if that stops happening.

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John: Yeah.

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Angie: Slowly.

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Then suddenly you're like, uhoh.

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Now what do I do?

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John: Well, look, I, I've

been through probably all the

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feelings, all of the journey with.

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Companies that I've

contracted to as a coach.

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And so there have been times when the

work has been flowing through, overflowing

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and clients have been plentiful.

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clients group coaching, the pay

pack is a bulging and everything's

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looking ros and wonderful.

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And then it.

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It can, it can all turn on a dime

and, and just go to, go to almost

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nothing within, I think, gosh, within

the company that I've been with for

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years, probably within months, it went

from pretty much a full roster to.

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enough to sort of be okay, but not

really that good to, to a point where

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it's like, well, is this gonna carry on?

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And that was, that was

the question all along.

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And to be honest, it still is.

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I still do some work for them and I

have no idea how long that will go on

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for, but whilst it's there, I'll keep

doing it, but I can't rely on that.

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It's not enough for starters, but

I can't rely on that for my future.

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I just treat it as a.

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An extra now, whereas this was once at

one point, the main source of my income.

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Angie: Well, I think we learn our

lessons through experience, right?

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So.

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I, I had an experience where I moved, I

moved across the country and at the time

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when I moved it, virtual wasn't a thing.

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It was remote work was not a thing.

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So I had concerns about how I was going to

continue my business and I was hired by a

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company similar to the one you worked for.

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and I thought, this is fabulous

and this is great until it isn't.

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For whatever the reason,

it's your eyes up.

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the company shifts, whatever goes on.

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And I think the lesson

came to light for me.

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So I'm not saying to people that if,

if you are working for a company right

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now and you're getting, clients, and

you have full roster, good for you.

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But I feel like in such a.

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Oh, I can't find the word, but it,

I don't wanna say volatile 'cause

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that sounds over too negative.

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But when you're in a, in a, in a growing

industry, and we've talked about this

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from 2019 to 2025, I think the coaching

industry, increased by over 500%.

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Over 500%.

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Now COVID had something to do with

that and, and now everybody wants

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to be and do and whatever, but I

think for me, my solution has been, I

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don't want all my eggs in one basket.

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That's just for me.

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I have to be solution based.

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And like you said, oh, they

throw me things here and

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there, but I can't rely on it.

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Well then as a business owner, you have

to decide, so what do I do with that?

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It's like getting fired slowly.

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John: Yeah, it really is.

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Yeah.

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here's, here's how I look on it.

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It's, it's, it's a comfortable position

for many people to be in because

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you do not have to do all the work

of getting the clients yourself.

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And that can be a lot of work.

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creating client flow and keeping

that going, on an ongoing basis

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requires a certain amount of effort.

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But, as a coach working in one

of those organizations that no

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matter what level you are at.

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You could be making a lot more money

if you were doing this for yourself

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in your own business because you

will never, you will never get a

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coaching rate that matches up to that.

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And, and for obvious reasons, not

because, not because people are

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being tight-fisted with it, but

because that's how business works.

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They, they are doing all the work

of bring, handing you the clients.

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you are essentially passively

just receiving them and then.

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Working with those clients and

your, your active part is, where you

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engage and, and help the clients.

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but

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Angie: Yeah, there's a

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John: yeah, it is a trade off.

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But the, the whole thing is, is there's

a level of professional passivity that

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means you don't have full control over

your business and, and you never will.

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even when you own your own business,

you don't have complete control, but

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you working for another organization,

you will never have that control.

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Especially when you are in a

contractor situation where they can,

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they don't have to provide you work.

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They're not obligated to.

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If it's there and you are available and

you want to do it, great, everyone's

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happy and you get the rates that

have been agreed, but there's no

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guarantees and no control on your end.

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You can't turn up the taps when you

want more work and turn them down.

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When you want a break,

you, you have no control.

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You just have to work with

whatever bones they throw you.

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Angie: Yeah.

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No, listen again, I think there's,

I think there's benefits to it.

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I think if you're somebody who wants

to, maybe doesn't want to really grind.

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grind through the coaching

process or as a profession.

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I don't think there's

anything wrong with it.

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I don't think there's wrong with picking

up some, and it's all individual.

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Before I even say this, because

I'm thinking of myself and might

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be pe people might be listening

and saying, shatter her mind.

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this is, I love this.

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I get, five or 10 clients a

week and that's perfect for me.

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So this isn't for you.

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I'm not, we're not necessarily speaking

to that, but even those five or 10.

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Might start to dissipate,

they might start to dissolve.

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And I think that the, the truth of this

conversation is about keeping yourself

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as in control as you can be and as

empowered as you can be, so that as

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you're getting fired slowly, 'cause that's

the focus, is that it is going away.

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This isn't, are you okay with only five

or 10 or 20 or whatever you're getting?

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This is, we're not talking about when

everybody's fat, dumb, and happy.

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We're talking about.

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The, the, the current

landscape is changing and it's

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probably going to continue.

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I don't see any slowdown in

the shift that's happening.

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I, I, I just, I'm, you said earlier,

this isn't new, but at the same

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time, I feel there's been more

of an increase and a more obvious

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increase lately, and I've heard it.

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You've heard it, right?

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We've, we've been having

these conversations, so.

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Again, the question then

becomes, you say, say yourself.

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How do I say I wanna a coach?

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Right?

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I think that's even a question

people ask themselves, right?

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When things start to slow down

and they see how difficult it is,

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or, options maybe seem limited.

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What do I do?

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What do you do?

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John: Yeah.

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And, and so I think it starts with, an

honest self-examination of what do you

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want, what do you, what do you want here?

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Because you do have to

check in with yourself.

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are you, are you willing to go out,

go it alone in the coaching world?

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And if you are, that's gonna

mean some things will change.

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That you have to move away from the

sort of pe passivity of receiving

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clients from an organization and go

to actively finding those clients for

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yourself and generating lead flow.

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And it's quite a different element of

your business because that actually

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becomes a very significant part of

what you do, where you might really

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just, you might just want to sit it

back and coach, and that's what you

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really want to do, which is true.

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In most coaches.

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And so if you are, I say this, if you're

not prepared, if you, if you want to sort

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of go that path, but you don't really want

to do all the prospecting and stuff to

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generate leads, it's not gonna go well.

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and so

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Angie: John?

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why are we laughing?

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You don't even know.

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That was a little sarcastic

laugh on John's part.

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He's if you wanna come

over to the dark side.

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John: It's, it is, just to

understand that that is, is just

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not going to be instantaneous.

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That, that it's not going, that

that flow of clients isn't going

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to suddenly, magically be replaced,

is gonna require a significant.

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A significant proportion of your

time, energy, and probably money to

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some degree, to get out there and

be attracting the kind of clients

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that you really want to have.

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That's if you even have

that level of clarity.

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And we did talk about this last

time as I was starting a coaching.

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Business, you're kind of in that position

of, well, you have, you've been a coach,

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but you haven't had as such a coaching

business, you've had a coaching contract.

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so if you haven't actually had your own

coaching business before, this is, this is

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gonna be a bit of a different experience,

are you really willing to do it?

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Because if you're not, you might be

better served by other options that might

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even involve going, going to work for

someone else in some way, shape, or form.

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Even if that's not.

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Yeah, office

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Angie: Of course, but listen, but

that's what we're talking about.

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The first thing you have to do

is make a decision and say, am I

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really passionate about coaching?

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And maybe this isn't ideal, but

I see the, I see what's coming,

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even if it's not here yet.

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So that could actually be a positive.

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That could be a really great opportunity

for you to say, let me reassess.

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And I don't know, there's

so many options, right?

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You could.

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If your contract allows, you could

work for multiple companies at one

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time, and maybe the combination of,

dribs and drabs will fill your plate.

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Or some other combination.

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And so again, even if you're, even if

you think or know that at some point the

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company that you're working for is gonna

dry up or what they're giving to you

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is gonna dry up, it is that opportunity

while you have something happening,

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which a lot of this is the benefit.

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We talked about this last time we spoke.

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We said, it's hard to start

a business from scratch,

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especially coaching competition.

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And if you're not financially prepared.

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That right there could, just shoot

you out of it, out of the equation

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completely, just because of necessity.

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So maybe this is an opportunity to

say, wait, I have some income and

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while I have this, let me start

looking at what my options are.

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Do I wanna try and be a bonafide

business and do this full time on my own?

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Do I wanna change what

type of coaching I do?

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Whatever that is, right?

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It's a very individual, I think decision.

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You and I have talked about this

a million times, especially about,

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ooh, I don't know, 12, 15 months ago

we started talking about multiple

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buckets so that as landscapes change

and business, opportunities change.

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We are not at the mercy

of all of those changes.

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That's really what you wanna do is you

wanna prepare yourself for, I mean,

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listen, if you have a job and you're

getting paid and you lose your job, you

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might go, oh my gosh, what do I have to

do here Again, with the, with the coaching

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industry, it's a usually a slower.

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Slower depth, but maybe it's

not gonna die completely.

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Maybe it's just Hey, this is all we

have and this is what we're doing,

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and this is our new business model.

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You have an opportunity to shift what

you're doing, and I think making those

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plans ahead of time or having a plan B

or an exit strategy, if you will, makes

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a very big difference on your mindset.

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So that when you start to make

changes, you're not that's

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high enough for anything.

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I don't wanna go down in the

Titanic and not have a lifeboat.

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'cause if fi, 'cause people

are gonna be grabbing at it.

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I, you don't wanna be that person.

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There's no water grasping at

anything that comes your way.

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Desperation is not a

good look for anybody.

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So be more, proactive

obviously than maybe reactive.

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That was a lot.

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John: I'll, I'll say so.

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I mean, if you, if you at

least have the clarity on.

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What you want to do for

yourself, as a coach.

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if you've already pretty well established,

this is the kind of coach that I

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do, this is who I work best with.

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these are the problems that

I, I help people the best on.

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Great.

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You, you know how to move forward.

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If not, then this is definitely an

opportunity for you to take a look through

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the people that you've been working with.

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Maybe review coaching notes or just

go through your client list and

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see who do they really like working

with and what was it about them

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that I really liked working with.

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I, I've seen that from myself with.

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With my old client is it, it gave me

a very clear picture of the people who

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I got the best results with and who I

actually really enjoyed working with.

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That made it much more apparent to me

of, alright, that's probably the kind

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of coaching I should be focusing in

on, and that's exactly what I've done.

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and so that could be a position that you

find yourself in now and say that there

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is an opportunity then and there may be

more than one, maybe more than one thing.

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So it is gonna be up to you thinking,

well, which one of these is maybe,

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well, maybe you wanna make more money.

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Which one of these has the

greatest earning potential?

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Which one of these has the greatest

fulfillment potential for me?

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am I gonna feel happiest

and fulfilled doing?

308

: 00:16:52

Now these are important questions to be

asking yourself if you haven't really

309

: 00:16:57

thoroughly considered them before,

because just working with client after

310

: 00:17:01

client that gets put to you, great.

311

: 00:17:04

You've been able to do that and

you can probably work well with

312

: 00:17:06

many, many different clients.

313

: 00:17:08

But there's al, there's always gonna

be those pe, those clients who you

314

: 00:17:11

work just that bit better with.

315

: 00:17:13

Angie: You know what's so

interesting that you say that?

316

: 00:17:14

Because I think when I got

into coaching initially.

317

: 00:17:17

I would, I guess if we put

a title to it, you would've

318

: 00:17:22

referred to me as a life coach.

319

: 00:17:24

Okay.

320

: 00:17:25

but the truth is, now I, not that I

don't coach people on their lives, right.

321

: 00:17:31

I, I'm an executive coach.

322

: 00:17:32

I generally work with first level

managers up into and beyond, the C-suite.

323

: 00:17:38

That really kind of happened organically.

324

: 00:17:40

So I didn't do that intentionally.

325

: 00:17:42

It just happened.

326

: 00:17:43

So now I can look back

at it and say, who knew?

327

: 00:17:46

And I have the opportunity,

do I wanna stay there or not?

328

: 00:17:49

And I say to myself, absolutely I do.

329

: 00:17:52

Because I know that when I was

life coaching and people would

330

: 00:17:55

just, trying to throw something

random out there topic-wise.

331

: 00:17:58

But, why can't I clean my bathroom?

332

: 00:18:01

Why am I why don't I,

why am I procrastinating?

333

: 00:18:03

Or why am I.

334

: 00:18:04

That is partly coaching, but that was,

to me, I the higher level challenges.

335

: 00:18:11

I don't, I'm, and again, I'm not saying

that you don't go into the, the, the

336

: 00:18:14

person, the human, because I say this,

we don't have professional challenges.

337

: 00:18:18

We have personal challenges

that show up professionally.

338

: 00:18:21

So every single time it

always goes back, but.

339

: 00:18:25

There's just a different focus I,

that this is where I want to sit.

340

: 00:18:29

This is now instead of it organic

and by default, this is my

341

: 00:18:33

intentional, this is my choice.

342

: 00:18:35

So, you and, and, and I had to come to

this space because there were changes

343

: 00:18:43

being made in the, where I sat as a

coach that I had zero control over.

344

: 00:18:51

I don't really want to give away

that much control over my own destiny

345

: 00:18:57

anymore, but that was something

that I had to come to, on my own.

346

: 00:19:03

So, definitely a great opportunity.

347

: 00:19:06

But listen, watch, look for

the writing on the wall.

348

: 00:19:10

How do you even know?

349

: 00:19:13

John: you probably get, look, I think

people tend to get a sense, right?

350

: 00:19:16

Angie: Yeah.

351

: 00:19:16

John: people tend to get a sense

of the way things are headed

352

: 00:19:19

and we both know about this, but

353

: 00:19:22

Angie: we do.

354

: 00:19:23

John: yeah, you may or may not be

completely correct and, and time,

355

: 00:19:26

time will tell whether your intuition

or your sense actually bears.

356

: 00:19:30

But the thing is that are, are you

gonna allow that to come up for

357

: 00:19:33

you and not do anything about it?

358

: 00:19:35

Because the, the possibility is that

you find yourself in a situation where

359

: 00:19:39

that does become a reality and you are

scrambling around and, maybe even in

360

: 00:19:45

a sort of desperate state because you

have to suddenly plug a gap in your.

361

: 00:19:50

and, and how are you

gonna afford anything?

362

: 00:19:53

and much further, if, if you have

the ability right now and you're not

363

: 00:19:56

in that, you're not in that position

right now, then you are in a position

364

: 00:20:00

where you can be, that might be,

that might be what's coming up.

365

: 00:20:04

You have a chance to be ready

for it and be proactive.

366

: 00:20:07

If you were coaching one of your

clients in a similar position, you

367

: 00:20:11

would tell them to do the same thing.

368

: 00:20:13

So be your own best coach here and

be proactive about this, and at least

369

: 00:20:18

start taking some steps towards looking

at looking at what it could look like

370

: 00:20:21

to have your own business and what

needs to happen to help shift you into

371

: 00:20:26

bringing in more of your own clients.

372

: 00:20:28

Even if you do end up with a cons, a

consistent trickle from, from that company

373

: 00:20:33

over time, that never really ends, great.

374

: 00:20:36

But you are making up for

whatever shortfall stuff.

375

: 00:20:40

In the meantime, if, if you're in

the position where it has the, where

376

: 00:20:44

the rug has been pulled from under

you and the clients are gone and your

377

: 00:20:48

income has gone too, I'd say this.

378

: 00:20:51

The first thing is.

379

: 00:20:52

Not to panic.

380

: 00:20:53

Not to panic, even though it feels

like the world is falling apart, you

381

: 00:20:57

will get, you will get through this.

382

: 00:20:59

You'll find a way through it.

383

: 00:21:00

But if you go out to try and find

clients with the, with an energy

384

: 00:21:05

of desperation and neediness, you

are only ever gonna push them away.

385

: 00:21:09

Angie: Absolutely.

386

: 00:21:11

Just, that's the whole point.

387

: 00:21:12

Be proactive.

388

: 00:21:13

E even if right now you,

anybody who's listening is

389

: 00:21:16

like, I've worked for a company.

390

: 00:21:18

Everything is fine and wonderful.

391

: 00:21:21

Maybe it's just a quick heads up for

you to kind of do an assessment for

392

: 00:21:24

yourself and say, is this, if this

were gone, if this were pulled out from

393

: 00:21:29

under me tomorrow, am I prepared in

any way, in any way, shape, or form?

394

: 00:21:35

John: Yeah, and I say this for those

coaches as well, for God's sake, increase

395

: 00:21:39

your rates because if you are, if you

are charging what the coaching company

396

: 00:21:45

was charging 'cause you think that's what

respect, that's what they were paying you.

397

: 00:21:48

You do You even know what the

clients were paying to have

398

: 00:21:51

the option to work with you.

399

: 00:21:53

Angie: Yeah.

400

: 00:21:55

John: this is, this is what I look at

'cause because in many cases, you know,

401

: 00:21:58

if you are replacing those kinds of

rates, you only need one or two clients

402

: 00:22:02

to replace the income that you've lost.

403

: 00:22:05

If you, if you actually put yourself

to the kind of rates that you should be

404

: 00:22:09

charging in those sorts of scenarios.

405

: 00:22:12

And that makes things look very different.

406

: 00:22:13

That's why I say don't panic.

407

: 00:22:14

If you're in that

situation now, don't panic.

408

: 00:22:16

Just focus yourself on, being,

being relaxed and centered and

409

: 00:22:20

attracting the right kinds of clients.

410

: 00:22:22

And, and still, I would still

say don't take, don't take on a

411

: 00:22:27

client who you wouldn't take on

if you weren't in the situation.

412

: 00:22:33

Even, even if the money's kind of,

so if you can help it, if you're

413

: 00:22:36

in desperate, dire need of, and

you just have to say yes to someone

414

: 00:22:39

would seem like a bit of a jerk.

415

: 00:22:42

Okay.

416

: 00:22:42

You know, make your choice.

417

: 00:22:43

But if you can avoid it, if you think you

can, I think I can get by without that.

418

: 00:22:47

Just about get by without it,

because they're, they're not

419

: 00:22:50

gonna solve your problems for you.

420

: 00:22:52

They're just gonna become a pain

in the ass and, and make you

421

: 00:22:55

think, is this the best I can do?

422

: 00:22:56

Is this the best kind

of client I can attract?

423

: 00:22:58

You're not gonna get

great results with them.

424

: 00:23:00

You're not gonna want to

carry on working with them.

425

: 00:23:01

In fact, you're probably gonna

want to sack them when you

426

: 00:23:04

are in a more stable position.

427

: 00:23:05

So don't put yourself through

it in the first place.

428

: 00:23:08

Angie: I think that the key here

is that I, I don't know, I'm, I'm

429

: 00:23:12

actually thinking about this, to myself

saying when people wanna transition

430

: 00:23:17

into coaching or become a coach,

I don't know if most people say,

431

: 00:23:21

oh, let me go work for another co.

432

: 00:23:23

Let me go work for a coaching company.

433

: 00:23:25

Or if they give it a

go on their own first.

434

: 00:23:27

And I feel like a lot of people,

because it is hard and difficult.

435

: 00:23:31

I'm making this up.

436

: 00:23:32

I didn't even look up the statistics.

437

: 00:23:34

It's just peers, right?

438

: 00:23:36

I am basing this on solely on my

experience with people that I have

439

: 00:23:41

met who are coaches and the, I don't

even know if one of you actually.

440

: 00:23:48

Intentionally started a

coaching business, on their own.

441

: 00:23:50

Like they did something,

they went, let me go work.

442

: 00:23:53

I, they, they used working for a

coaching company or a co, a company

443

: 00:23:59

that offers coaching services.

444

: 00:24:01

as a result of feeling like,

well, I need something.

445

: 00:24:04

Let me at least stay in the

same, in the same tunnel.

446

: 00:24:08

and that's what we don't wanna do, right?

447

: 00:24:10

We don't wanna get stuck.

448

: 00:24:12

That space, because the truth is that's

not what your intention really was.

449

: 00:24:16

It just was something that maybe satisfied

or fulfilled, a necessity, a need.

450

: 00:24:21

yeah.

451

: 00:24:21

So I don't know.

452

: 00:24:23

I think about it just popped into my head.

453

: 00:24:24

I was like, everybody I know

that's a coach didn't intentionally

454

: 00:24:28

say I'm becoming a coach.

455

: 00:24:29

It just didn't happen that way and.

456

: 00:24:32

Most of you I met actually while

working for other companies

457

: 00:24:37

that offered coaching services.

458

: 00:24:40

and 99% of you, don't work

for those companies anymore.

459

: 00:24:45

So it's just interesting to me, right?

460

: 00:24:48

Maybe it's not that you have to wait

for the, for the market to dry up, so

461

: 00:24:53

to speak, but to really say to yourself.

462

: 00:24:56

What's, what you, what John

said in the very beginning.

463

: 00:24:59

Go back to your why and your vision.

464

: 00:25:01

why did you start working for a company

and, and again, I'm, there's no judgment

465

: 00:25:08

if, if you're doing well and you're happy,

have at it Because I did it and I was

466

: 00:25:13

happy for a period of time, and I don't

know if I would've become who I am, if.

467

: 00:25:21

Things didn't shift and change.

468

: 00:25:23

I, I can't even, I, I don't know how long

that would've lasted, but I think at the

469

: 00:25:27

end of the day, because, here's John here.

470

: 00:25:30

John and I are telling everybody,

Hey, the market's shifting.

471

: 00:25:33

Right?

472

: 00:25:34

Not just in the United States and not

just in the UK or new, it's changing.

473

: 00:25:38

Pay attention to the fact that

it's changing and start again.

474

: 00:25:43

You don't have to put together

The bunker in case Armageddon,

475

: 00:25:46

coaching Armageddon happens.

476

: 00:25:48

But start to think about what things

will look like for you in a year, two

477

: 00:25:55

years from now, three years from now.

478

: 00:25:57

Are you somewhat prepared for

any shift that might happen?

479

: 00:26:04

That's really all it is.

480

: 00:26:05

I don't know if we could actually address

every, each individual's, challenges

481

: 00:26:09

and we can't really do that, but.

482

: 00:26:12

Pay attention.

483

: 00:26:14

John: I put this, I put this as well.

484

: 00:26:16

I mean, I think the whole time

that I've ever worked with coaching

485

: 00:26:19

organizations, I've always had my own

private clients on the side as well.

486

: 00:26:23

Angie: Mm-hmm.

487

: 00:26:24

John: It's never, it's

never been an issue.

488

: 00:26:26

Haven't always, haven't always.

489

: 00:26:28

but let that be known because it

hasn't always been necessary to do so.

490

: 00:26:33

And you know, if you have a handful

of clients outside, that I think

491

: 00:26:36

is, is probably a healthy thing.

492

: 00:26:37

It's like, well.

493

: 00:26:39

Maybe all you really need to do is

if you, if you're in that situation,

494

: 00:26:42

is how do you turn up the, what has

been a more of a side option for you?

495

: 00:26:46

How do you turn that up a little bit?

496

: 00:26:47

What, what can you do there?

497

: 00:26:49

Can you, you know, if you have some

people that you've been working with,

498

: 00:26:51

get referrals from them, other people

that you've worked with before who

499

: 00:26:54

you maybe could go, could go back

to and work with privately without,

500

: 00:26:58

without causing any contractual.

501

: 00:27:00

Or, prob ethical issues there as

502

: 00:27:02

Angie: Sure.

503

: 00:27:03

Yeah,

504

: 00:27:04

John: So, so I think there's a lot of

things, a lot of things you could probably

505

: 00:27:07

look at that would probably help see you

through the transitionary period if you're

506

: 00:27:11

gonna, if you're gonna make that move.

507

: 00:27:13

but yeah, I think for, for most people

it's just, so being that little bit

508

: 00:27:16

more, more proactive saying, do, do

you really want to wait until sort of

509

: 00:27:20

either you are turning the lights out

or they have and, and everything is

510

: 00:27:24

dried up before you take action here?

511

: 00:27:26

Angie: Mm-hmm.

512

: 00:27:27

John: not.

513

: 00:27:27

So, so maybe take some action now and

at least start creating some plans for

514

: 00:27:31

how things can, can be going forward

or for what your op, for what your

515

: 00:27:35

options are so that you can think,

because I think you have, you have

516

: 00:27:37

many of them, but it's much easier to

see them and review them when you're

517

: 00:27:41

not, when you're not in survival mode,

when you're not yet in panic stations.

518

: 00:27:45

So take that opportunity now.

519

: 00:27:48

also, I'll say this, I think.

520

: 00:27:50

It's easy if, especially if you've

been with an organization like that

521

: 00:27:52

for a long time, you sometimes you

can end up undervaluing your coaching

522

: 00:27:55

'cause you've only ever been sort

of paid certain amounts for it.

523

: 00:27:58

And you kind of get into

that sort of mindset for it.

524

: 00:28:01

and then maybe even some identity

shift that needs to be made because

525

: 00:28:04

people haven't been coming to

your coaching for you as such.

526

: 00:28:07

They've been coming for the bigger

organization or the name that you

527

: 00:28:10

are attached to or whatever else.

528

: 00:28:12

And so, there's.

529

: 00:28:13

There may even be some identity shift

that needs to work, some branding

530

: 00:28:17

things that need to be focused on.

531

: 00:28:19

And and again, some, some self examination

for can I step up and be that person who

532

: 00:28:26

is the brand and is the business rather

than being the sort of back, what we call

533

: 00:28:32

them, backend person sort of behind the

534

: 00:28:34

Angie: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

535

: 00:28:35

Yeah.

536

: 00:28:35

John: of does some front, front end work,

but they're not really front and center.

537

: 00:28:39

it's, it's a, it's a different position

and, and it, it does, I think it

538

: 00:28:43

does affect you psychologically for

your value, your worth as a coach.

539

: 00:28:47

And so you probably will find you're

in a position where you, you do

540

: 00:28:51

need to start valuing that more

and charging what you're worth.

541

: 00:28:56

Angie: Well, I think that's a key for

many people is when they think about a

542

: 00:29:01

shift away from what they're doing and

how they're doing it, there's a little,

543

: 00:29:07

probably a little fear that shows up.

544

: 00:29:09

Because they envision that

they'd have to and you said that

545

: 00:29:12

you hit the nail on the head.

546

: 00:29:15

You don't, let's say you're making a

hundred dollars, I don't even know.

547

: 00:29:17

let's say you're making a hundred

dollars a session being paid by

548

: 00:29:21

a, a coaching company and they're

supplying everybody to you.

549

: 00:29:25

I would say I would venture to guess.

550

: 00:29:27

If you actually did the numbers and

decide, figured out what it would cost

551

: 00:29:31

you to run a business, ultimately you do

need to charge what you're actually worth.

552

: 00:29:35

You need to know what you're actually

worth because there isn't a company

553

: 00:29:40

on the planet that's going to pay you.

554

: 00:29:42

If I had coaches working for me,

they are not going to make what I

555

: 00:29:46

make because I have the overhead,

I have the responsibility,

556

: 00:29:50

I have the the liabilities.

557

: 00:29:52

So.

558

: 00:29:53

It is, I think it's a very kind

of freeing, thought and say,

559

: 00:29:58

oh, well, I could make three.

560

: 00:30:00

I'm, I'm making this up three,

four, or $500 a session.

561

: 00:30:04

If I absorb all of the liability,

oh, well maybe it is worth it.

562

: 00:30:10

Right?

563

: 00:30:11

It's just a different scale and, and

that should remove, I guess, some of

564

: 00:30:16

that fear, just a little bit of it.

565

: 00:30:20

John: Yeah, it can definitely depend on

the kinds of people that you've been,

566

: 00:30:23

work you've been working with as well.

567

: 00:30:24

So if you've been, if you've generally

found yourself through those companies,

568

: 00:30:28

working with people who are kind of in

the struggle bursts a lot of the time

569

: 00:30:31

and, you know, maybe can't always afford

to stay in coaching, you are gonna think

570

: 00:30:34

that's what's out there is like, you

know, you think that's, that's the world,

571

: 00:30:38

that's, that's what people are like.

572

: 00:30:39

But that's not what everyone is like.

573

: 00:30:41

'cause there's plenty of other

people who are in situations where

574

: 00:30:43

the clients that are coming through

to them have plenty of money.

575

: 00:30:47

Money's never really the question

when it comes into whether they

576

: 00:30:50

can afford their coaching or not.

577

: 00:30:51

It's like it's only ever.

578

: 00:30:53

Do they get some value out of it?

579

: 00:30:55

Are they benefiting from it?

580

: 00:30:57

And there's, there's many,

many, many of those people.

581

: 00:31:00

but we just sort of get, we end up with

this vision of what we think the world

582

: 00:31:04

is like based on our own experience.

583

: 00:31:06

And there's a chance to step outside of

that experience and those limitations.

584

: 00:31:11

'cause it is just, it's just

limita limiting beliefs.

585

: 00:31:14

That's all it is.

586

: 00:31:15

because you think that's how

the world is and it's not.

587

: 00:31:17

And if you really start to examine

it, talk to other coaches, get

588

: 00:31:20

yourself out into the world a bit

more, expand your horizons, you'll

589

: 00:31:24

see it's not, and I think even a.

590

: 00:31:26

Even sitting down with, chat GPT

or whatever AI system you like,

591

: 00:31:30

and, and putting that sort of

information in saying, all right,

592

: 00:31:33

this is the kind of coaching I

want to do, this kind of business.

593

: 00:31:35

I think we want to have, looking at sort

of standard industry based and things

594

: 00:31:38

like that, and how experienced I am.

595

: 00:31:41

What, what kind of rates would

a coach like me be charging

596

: 00:31:45

for a six month program or for

consulting or those kinds of things.

597

: 00:31:51

You'll start to see a different picture.

598

: 00:31:53

You know, you just to get

some, get some other answers.

599

: 00:31:56

Get some other input other than your

history, your experience, which is, which

600

: 00:32:00

is limited and biased, unfortunately.

601

: 00:32:03

Angie: And is, and listen, it is

absolutely limited and biased.

602

: 00:32:06

And that's why John and I are talking

about this with you today because

603

: 00:32:09

we've been there, we've done it.

604

: 00:32:11

We've absolutely, we've

absolutely, experienced it.

605

: 00:32:14

So Sounds good.

606

: 00:32:17

John: Oh yeah.

607

: 00:32:17

This all comes from experience.

608

: 00:32:18

I hope, I hope that's valuable to

anyone who's in that situation.

609

: 00:32:22

We'd love to hear from you if you are,

and especially if this has been valuable

610

: 00:32:25

or useful, or if there are questions

coming up around this that we haven't

611

: 00:32:28

answered that you'd like us to, or any

other coaching related coaching business,

612

: 00:32:33

coaching industry related questions that

you have for us that you think might

613

: 00:32:36

be good for us to discuss on the show.

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: 00:32:38

Get in touch.

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: 00:32:39

in the meantime, I think

we'll wrap it up here, Angie.