How to Manage Over-Talkative Clients in Coaching Sessions

Angie: 00:00:00

John,

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John: And G.

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Angie: interesting conversation

we were having this morning.

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We actually chuckled, right.

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We were talking about, how we're

showing up and what's happening

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in our actual coaching sessions,

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John: Yes.

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Angie: and we did say some potty things.

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John: Some, some, some stuff is not

suitable for broadcast, but, but, we

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were talking about one particular issue

of, but sometimes we get people on calls

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and sometimes it's prospecting calls.

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Sometimes, well, for me, sometimes

it's podcast guests, sometimes it's

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clients, coaching clients who don't

really know when to stop talking,

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who maybe to talk a little too much.

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They don't to leave gaps in the

conversation for you to join in.

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And when you do try and join in, they

talk over you and you don't really get

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an opportunity to say anything else.

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A bit what I'm doing right now, right?

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Angie: Oh, great illustration.

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I was sitting here shut

up, Angie, shut up Angie.

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Let him finish.

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I think there's so many You

don't think it's a thing.

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It's not.

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I, I think when you're a new coach,

you don't really think about.

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That as a potential roadblock

to the success of a client.

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And when you're actually doing, when

you're in a coaching situation where you

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are new, I'm not even sure that, that

a, a, a newer coach would be able to.

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Identify that that is problematic, right?

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They might say, oh, well, and I

had this once before while I was

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training, training coaches, that

they were well, I need to don't I?

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Isn't it the right thing for me to do

to allow them to get out how they feel

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and tell me what's going on with them?

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Right?

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There's, I think, a belief in that.

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John: Well look, this is one of the

many things that sales training taught

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me and helped me in with coaching that

I think is important to understand

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that on a sales call, if you, if you

are not the person in control of the

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conversation, the other person is, and

you are not leading the conversation.

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So if you are not the person who's

asking Quest, asking the questions.

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If the other person's dominating the

conversation, you have already lost.

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You've, to some degree, you

some degree, you've lost status,

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you've lost respect, you've lost

power on authority on the call.

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That's just as true in your

coaching calls as well.

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If you can't keep your clients

in check, if you can't bring them

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into being able to manage the calls

respectfully, because it is a, it is

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a little disrespectful to be honest.

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If they don't give you a chance

to, to talk, but it is also

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a control and power thing.

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And sometimes when people are doing that,

they're asserting themselves, sometimes

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they're overexcited, whatever the reasons

are, they do need to be addressed.

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And if, if you don't, first of all

your, your coaching is gonna be

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ineffective, or you'll get to the end

of a coaching call and be well, you

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haven't, haven't got time to coach you

because you've just spoken for 30, 30 odd

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Angie: okay, but let's back up a minute.

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Think about what you're saying.

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There's a lot there to unpack.

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Think about that.

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You are, the first thing out of the gate

is you in, as a coach, you need to posture

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yourself that you are the PACE car.

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You're not the authority.

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I don't love that word,

but you are the pace car.

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You are the person that, and

anybody who doesn't know what a

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PACE car is, it's a racing thing.

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you're.

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Look it up, but you're the person who's

really going to control the energy,

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within this session that you're in.

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Always.

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You need to always, let's sit it this way.

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You need to remain in the driver's seat,

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And when, when somebody, and

listen, sometimes, sometimes

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clients definitely come in and

say, Ugh, Angie, I, I've had a day.

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Can I, can I download?

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And I'm sure.

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But I will still.

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Still interrupt them when

it becomes unproductive.

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Right?

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When I recognize that there is

no outcome to this, that it's,

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it's just, it's, it goes beyond.

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The initial venting and just

it starts out with their boss

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and ends up with world hunger.

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And I'm wait, wait, wait.

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What's the real issue here?

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So you really have to begin to, to, as a

coach, and I don't care how long you've

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been a coach, because I think that some

coaches I have experienced, I'm just

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saying they've been around a long time.

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And they get a little lazy just saying

sometimes, just check yourself people.

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Are you sometimes getting lazy and

letting the client run the show

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because you're tired that day and you

don't really feel working that hard?

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You don't feel diving

in and doing the work.

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It is not a conversation, right?

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It is a coaching session, so.

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There's a lot of ways to, to really

look at this, but I think right out of

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the gate is the mindset as a new coach

and an experienced coach is that you

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are always the driver of that session.

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John: I think there are times in

coaching where you definitely want

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to set things up to be able to give

somebody time to express themselves

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without, without interruption.

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Angie: Sure.

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John: I, so I sometimes talk to, I

sometimes talk, maybe, I can't remember

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if it's in our sessions or not, but

about, the book by Nancy Klein of Time

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to Think is she's specifically talking

about, creating, creating environments

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where people, this isn't about people

talking too much, this is more people who.

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Need a bit of space to figure things

out and and, and talk things up and

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open up that you want to make sure that

they can do that, that you might need

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to leave some long silence and stuff

and create the, hold the space, create

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the environment for them to do that.

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This is a little different.

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and I, and I do think there

is that thing of, we have been

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somewhat conditioned to think that

interacting people is a little rude.

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So we, we don't, so we don't do it.

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Angie: I'm sorry.

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Did I interrupt you?

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Sorry.

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John: It, but it's not really, or

at least it doesn't have to be.

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I think there are ways of doing

this, and I think it's even okay.

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I've, I've discovered it's

actually fine with clients.

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Say, can I interrupt

you there for a moment?

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Because it, it's a nice way, it's

kind of almost a nice way of saying,

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all right, this is going on a bit.

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I need to stop here because there's

something we need to address

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or, or you say, all right, you

just mentioned something there.

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Can we talk about that?

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before they, before they carry on?

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But you are gonna have to speak up whether

there's a gap or not, and you may have

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to keep talking until they recognize

that you are talking and actually stop.

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It depends on the person.

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Some people get so into saying what

they're saying, that they even forget

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that there is somebody listening to it.

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They just wanna pour it all out.

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But you are the coach in the situation.

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You have to decide, is that appropriate?

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Is that a good use of our time?

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Are we getting somewhere here?

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Do they need this?

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Or should I be interrupting 'em

and say, Hey, look, this may

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not be the best use of our time.

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Or can we come back to something

that I think is really important?

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You redirect.

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Angie: I think that's a really important,

I, one of the, one of the, I guess one

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of the tools that I use when I'm in

sessions is again, always want to hear and

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acknowledge what they have to say, right?

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So I need to talk less than them

in a session, unless I'm doing

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consulting or workshopping.

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That's a little bit different.

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But in a true coaching session,

it's really giving them the space

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and you have to start to understand

you don't know your client number

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one on the very first session.

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So they might be, you said

earlier, full of excitement.

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So they're jabbering and you

kind of let them download, right?

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You're getting used to them a little.

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You don't quite know them at all actually.

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But then if you're in session three

and they're still rambling on, right.

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You realize, okay.

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And I've had people say to me,

oh, and by the way, when you

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coach this person, just be aware.

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They're a talker.

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He or she's a talker.

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And that is important for me to

understand out of the gate so

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I can be on the lookout for it.

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But but so your point is valid, right?

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We have to kind of.

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Be able to interrupt appropriately

and even ask the question Hey

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John, let me ask you this.

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so where are we actually going with this?

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And this is funny, this is why I let

out that big laugh earlier, is when I

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come into a very first session with a

client and I'm doing 10 or 15 minutes

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of housekeeping items in terms of

expectation, I actually tell them, just so

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I will be interrupting you

throughout this process.

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And there's two circumstances

under which I do that.

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Number one, if you're rambling

with no landing in sight, right?

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And I make fun of it 'cause

I don't wanna sound so rigid.

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And, and number two is if you

say something that you gloss over

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and I'll give them an example.

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For example, this, I will

say, wait, wait, wait.

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Can we pause there?

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'cause I, as a coach, I'm trained, I

should be picking up on the small nuances.

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So I, I set that expectation right

out of the gate and I'm actually

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forward enough that if I am, in a

few sessions with somebody and they

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are a bit of a rambler, I'll say.

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So, how impactful do you feel it, what

you're sharing is I try to turn it around

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and then point to it so they become aware

because, what we, we generally, I think

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I know more about most of my clients than

their spouse or their families, right?

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We are kind of the, they

we are their download.

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This is I can't wait to talk

to Angie or John because I

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need someplace to let this go.

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So we wanna honor that, but really.

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Keep the flow.

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You don't wanna, you don't wanna

assist in their stuckness, right?

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You do not wanna be an accomplice to that,

and I think that's important to recognize.

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It's not just being nice, it's,

you're being paid to do a job, so

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John: We're also, we're also not there

to, to shame them for being who they are.

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That if that's their

nature, that they're not

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Angie: Mm-hmm.

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John: talker.

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but.

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I do think most people can

benefit from being a little

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more direct and to the point.

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And so sometimes that takes a bit of

direction and feedback and, and in all

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honesty, I can say from sessions I've

had with people where I've done that and

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I, I honestly do it in a very nice, nice

way, you'll say, this isn't something

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you want to be mean about with people

is it can be very sensitive for people.

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It, it not, not that you need to

walk on eggshells or anything.

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Just be nice, be kind to

your clients with this.

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'cause they're not, they're not

actually doing anything bad or wrong.

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It is just not the most helpful behavior.

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Angie: a coach though, right?

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You don't have to say to them,

wow, you're really talking a lot.

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I might say something this, Hey John,

let me ask you is there a way to be, and,

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and maybe in the future once I identify,

I might say, so tell me about this.

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in a really crisp, concise.

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It's really introducing the habit

of shortening and not just rambling

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without saying it to them, shifting

the habit through question and, and

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what, how do we change, a perspective

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by, by asking a question.

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John: One of our goals as coaches

is leading people to clarity.

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And we can't do that if they, if they're

losing clarity in, in their conversation.

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And, and so we can help them get clearer.

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And, and so I will say,

I will say, alright.

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How relevant is that to what

we're talking about here?

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Or, is, is, yeah.

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Is, is this, is this really

what's most important here?

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What's, what's the real point?

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Can we, can we nutshell this?

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if you had to say it as, as.

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sum it up as quickly as possible.

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How would you say that?

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Not that I want them to

rush through the session.

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I'm not aiming to be necessarily done

in 10 minutes or anything, but I, but

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I do want them to get a bit better at

getting to the point, because if they're

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doing it on coaching calls, they're

probably doing it in other places as well.

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that it was, it's not a hundred

percent true how you do anything.

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Being how you do everything is,

is a reasonable, it's a reasonable

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generalization, that they're

probably doing that in other

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parts of their life as well.

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In work situations, if they're

not being direct, if they're not

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being clear in their communication,

that's having an impact.

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So, so I see it as doing them a big favor.

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If I can help my clients to become

a little clearer, a bit more direct

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and to the point on things, it

doesn't have to be just bullet or our

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conversations become bullet points.

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That's not, that's not what I'm

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Angie: so, yeah, but here's the thing,

and this is a de, this is definitely

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another tool that I've used when

somebody, and I even have to do it

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with myself sometimes you and I do it.

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And we're having conversations.

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We're human too.

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But I will say, so wait, John, I'm

using John as my, my person today.

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He's my crash test dummy.

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But I'll be John, let me wait,

let me pause you for a minute.

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So you shared this, this,

this, and this and, right.

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Am I correct?

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these are the things that are coming

up because sometimes when somebody's

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downloading, they're not even really

paying attention to what they're saying.

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Which to your point, John, they lose

track of what really is going on?

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And, and I'll say back to

them what I'm observing.

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So you've shared this, this, and this.

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Which of those is really for today?

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What is the most impactful, or

what is the biggest challenge?

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Which of those do you

really wanna focus on?

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I will bring them right to that point,

and just in doing that, if I continue

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to do that throughout our sessions, I'm

teaching them to do that for themselves.

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And they come in, they'll come in

within a couple of sessions and say,

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okay, Angie, I, I got the hints and I

wasn't hinting I was doing right without

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saying, this is what we're going to do.

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Wait, so you said this, this, and

this, and maybe this and this and this.

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That's a lot.

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What's the focus Before we throw ourselves

into the weeds, what really is the most

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important or the biggest priority, or

I might say which, if we attacked one

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of these today, if we brought something

to, to the surface today, which of

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these would have the greatest impact?

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So it's never mean, it's just kind of

Bringing them to that point of, oh yeah.

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That's a lot, isn't it?

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You're helping them observe without

telling them what to observe,

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John: I, I what you

said about pre-framing.

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I'm very big on that.

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I think the more we can get agreement

upfront, and permission, before,

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sometimes we do need to, Get permission

from and say, this is how I coach.

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This is how we're gonna run things.

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Is that all good with you?

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It's not gonna come as a surprise to them.

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They might not remember that the

whole time through, but when it

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happens, they'll be all right.

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Yeah.

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I, I, I, I did agree to this, but

as, as a coach, is that one, one of

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the reasons I think, I, I experienced

this as a coach, maybe you did as

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well, I don't know, but early on, one

of the reasons why my sessions would

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always overrun was because I would

let clients talk too much and that.

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I, I made the mistake of thinking

that was the client's fault.

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It wasn't, it was mine.

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I wasn't in control

enough on my own sessions.

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so even sometimes it's saying okay,

we will have to finish more or

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less on time today 'cause I've got

another session straight after this,

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or I have to run out and do that.

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Even if you haven't, sometimes it's good

to say that with clients who, have that

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tendency because you are already sowing

the seeds of let's keep this tight today.

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'cause we're gonna be finishing

on time, more or less.

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but as best you can, your, your role

there is to get, get through what

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you're there to get through in that day.

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I'm not saying everything

needs to be tied up.

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Bo coaching sessions don't

always go that way, but.

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But to at least feel that you've

had a valuable session by the end

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of the session rather than that

you are trying to squeeze in.

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Know you are at time and you're trying

to squeeze in a couple of minutes

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coaching 'cause you couldn't get them

to stop talking for the whole time.

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Angie: Or there's coaches

that don't stop talking.

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: 00:15:47

I'm gonna, this is a

whole different session.

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I'm sorry, recording.

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Right.

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John: yeah.

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Yeah.

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I think it's a

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Angie: we, there are definitely coaches

who just get on and wanna talk about

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their own ex, and I'm not saying that

we don't share, but I, I don't wanna

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go there today and derail us, but

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Coaches do a lot of the talking too.

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And if you are naturally a people person

chatty and not shy, it can be very easy

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for your clients to bring you over to the

dark side of overly communicating, right?

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It's very easy.

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I am that person and I think when I

think back to my earliest coaching

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or mentoring training sessions.

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I think I had that because I felt, not

because I thought I was so important, but

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because I thought I have so much to share

with them, I must share my knowledge.

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Right.

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That's, and I think that's a

little trap that we could get into.

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We can talk about that another time, but

don't be part of the problem coaches.

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: 00:16:42

Right.

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Definitely.

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: 00:16:43

'cause some, listen, some coaches are

purely coaching, which we've talked about.

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Some through definitely, maybe

in a more corporate environment,

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throw in some, consulting as well.

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: 00:16:55

Maybe sharing, Hey, I had this

experience, do you mind if I share it?

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Always asking for permission and instead

of it being a two minute overview, it's 10

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: 00:17:04

minutes of, let me tell you what happened.

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: 00:17:06

And I'm thinking, go get a coach.

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You need a coach, go get a coach.

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: 00:17:09

or a therapist.

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: 00:17:10

But it's just we going back

to if I'm driving this car.

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I'm trying to get to a

destination, even if it's unknown.

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And how do I get there?

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: 00:17:20

And this is the other thing to

your, I just wanna back up and I

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: 00:17:23

don't wanna forget this, but running

over so many times in a session

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it takes, my sessions are an hour.

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: 00:17:31

So many times we'll talk through things

and then all of a sudden in the last

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five minutes, something breaks through.

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: 00:17:40

It is very tough as a coach to

want to say, okay, now we've

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: 00:17:45

gotten that conversation time's up.

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: 00:17:47

So John, let me ask you this.

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: 00:17:49

I know you've had it 'cause you

just gave me the nod and we've

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: 00:17:52

talked about this a little bit

ourselves, but how do you manage that?

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: 00:17:56

Stay on time, honor the client and

not minimize this great thing that

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: 00:18:01

just they said or re re realized.

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: 00:18:06

John: Yeah.

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: 00:18:07

So I would, I would say, and do say,

because I, I, I think even just recent.

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: 00:18:11

This happened on a call, that I,

I would very much look forward

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: 00:18:15

to talking with you about this.

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this is a big and important

realization to have.

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: 00:18:20

It's a shame it's near the end of our

call, but, it's certainly something

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: 00:18:23

we will start our next call with.

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: 00:18:26

and I'll get them to book that next

call in if they haven't already

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: 00:18:28

done that, so that they already know

exactly is already in their head.

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All right.

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: 00:18:33

We're just linking it through then to the

next time that we're gonna be talking.

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: 00:18:38

'cause because I think.

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: 00:18:39

The temptation sometimes could be

to, oh, may, I've got, maybe I've got

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: 00:18:42

half an hour before my next session.

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: 00:18:44

We can give them some extra time.

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: 00:18:45

And

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: 00:18:45

Angie: yeah.

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: 00:18:46

John: and I would say, I, I've done it.

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: 00:18:48

And I would say, don't do

it because it becomes an

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: 00:18:50

expectation that you have allowed.

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: 00:18:53

And so it's not that I'm

reasonable that they expect well.

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: 00:18:55

The next time the sessions they, they

bring something up at the end of the

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: 00:18:59

session the next time again, and it's

well, the expectation is you're gonna

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: 00:19:03

stay on because you did it last time.

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: 00:19:04

And, and even for you,

the expectation is there.

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: 00:19:07

It's oh, last time I stayed

on when this happened.

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: 00:19:09

So I guess I, staying consistent.

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: 00:19:12

I'm, I'm gonna do that again.

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: 00:19:13

Angie: Yeah.

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: 00:19:14

I do it a little differently

though, very similar.

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: 00:19:17

I don't point to the time, I don't know

why it makes me feel, me personally

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: 00:19:22

feel uncomfortable, but if something

does happen, I will say, what?

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: 00:19:25

This is I acknowledge whatever's happened

in that moment, and then I say, so

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: 00:19:30

here, this is what I'd really for you

to do, to creep with this in mind.

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: 00:19:33

To prepare for our next session because

obviously we need to bring this up

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: 00:19:37

right away and I give them some time,

and I'm not ancillary, not busy work,

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: 00:19:42

but something that I want them to do.

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: 00:19:44

I want you to think more about this.

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: 00:19:46

This is what I'd you to

do prior to next session.

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: 00:19:49

Just so that they don't feel they have

this great moment, an epiphany maybe,

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: 00:19:54

and then it's left until next time.

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: 00:19:56

Write down this, write down,

and then I go, so, fair enough.

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: 00:19:59

Great.

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: 00:19:59

And then I just go into the ending

of the session rather than say, well

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: 00:20:04

you said, and I don't know if you

say it that way, oh, it's a shame.

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: 00:20:06

Or at the end I don't, I

personally don't point to that.

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: 00:20:10

It doesn't mean my way is the right

way, but I, but I had to learn that

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: 00:20:14

because I was that person that,

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: 00:20:16

If I had

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: 00:20:17

John: there.

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: 00:20:17

There are

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: 00:20:17

Angie: 30 minutes,

404

: 00:20:19

John: there are times when I would say.

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: 00:20:22

Are you okay if we go

on a few more minutes?

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: 00:20:24

I think we should deal with this now.

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: 00:20:25

We'll talk about this

for a few more minutes.

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: 00:20:27

That does happen.

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: 00:20:28

But I say this isn't, this isn't something

we normally do in a session, but if

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: 00:20:32

you're okay to stick around for a few more

minutes, I think maybe we should address

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: 00:20:35

this Now, doesn't happen that much.

412

: 00:20:36

There's not that many things that come

up that urgent, but it has happened.

413

: 00:20:40

and if you, and if I can

do it, I'm gonna do that.

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: 00:20:42

I'm not gonna.

415

: 00:20:43

So I'm not these people,

I'm not clock watching.

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: 00:20:46

I want to try and finish around

time, out of respect to myself,

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: 00:20:49

respect to them as well.

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: 00:20:50

It's this is the time we agreed, this

is the time that's been paid for.

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: 00:20:54

but it's not the case of, all

right, well, no, the, the alarm

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: 00:20:57

goes and, alright, you're done.

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: 00:20:59

See you next time.

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: 00:21:00

com.

423

: 00:21:01

Yeah, so it is okay, we might

go a few minutes either way.

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: 00:21:04

If we're done sooner,

we might finish sooner.

425

: 00:21:06

If we, if it's gonna be another minute

or so, let's wrap up the conversation.

426

: 00:21:11

But it shouldn't be much more than that.

427

: 00:21:13

If you are making yourself late for

your next sessions, or you're not

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: 00:21:16

giving yourself a time to have a rest

break or anything that, it's on you.

429

: 00:21:20

You are the person who has power

in this situation to change it.

430

: 00:21:24

Angie: Right.

431

: 00:21:24

I agree.

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: 00:21:25

I think this is great, great,

great awareness for the

433

: 00:21:30

John: it's, it's it's a good topic

and it happens to all of us, right?

434

: 00:21:33

It comes up in all, all

of our coaching sessions.

435

: 00:21:35

So yeah, definitely the,

436

: 00:21:36

Angie: you've been a coach, it's

something you will contend with.

437

: 00:21:38

It's, there's no, there's no

ifs, ands, or buts about that.

438

: 00:21:42

John: yeah, I think we'll have

to come back to the coaches, over

439

: 00:21:45

talking on another, on another

session, but that's a good one.

440

: 00:21:48

Andrew, this has been a good one.

441

: 00:21:49

we'll be back again next time

with some more good stuff.

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: 00:21:52

Angie: I agree.

443

: 00:21:53

Good stuff.

444

: 00:21:53

I.