Elevate Your Coaching Practice Through Self-Review

John: 00:00:00

Angie,

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Angie: John.

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John: we spend so much time helping

clients reflect, review, and grow,

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but how often do we actually turn

that same process back on ourselves?

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Angie: Ooh.

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I don't know if I wanna answer that,

but I think a lot of coaches treat their

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own sessions like a dodgy first draft,

hit record, deliver it live, and hope

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the client doesn't notice the typos.

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But the truth is, the best

coaches keep leveling up by

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reviewing their own performance.

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John: They do.

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otherwise we're like personal

trainers who never exercise.

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So today we are looking at how to

review your own coaching sessions

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without spiraling into self-loathing

or pretending that you are flawless.

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Angie: Which, let's be

honest, are the two extremes.

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Most of us kind of bounce between.

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So let's see if we can't

find the middle ground.

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John: Angie, I never

used to review myself.

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but I do it more now.

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In fact, I've been, come in,

put in positions where I've

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had to do it, and I find

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in that.

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but there's so many different

places in which I review myself.

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Coaching sessions is just one of

them, but I do feel it's important.

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But I know you've been reviewing

your own coaching sessions as much

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more standard practice than me.

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So tell me a bit about when

did you start doing that and

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why did you start doing that?

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Angie: Yeah, I have to say, I wish I

could say to you, oh, I had this big

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epiphany and I thought, wow, what a

great way to level up my coaching skills.

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But that wasn't how it happened.

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what happened was I was working

for a pretty big coaching company

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and part of their process, it's one

of my certification, one of those.

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Pieces to every session delivered

was coach self-evaluation.

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And it really gave a great, comprehensive

breakdown of how do you think you did?

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And it wasn't airy fairy.

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So, so when I would say, six

years ago, I started doing it.

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into my career.

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I think previous to that it was more like.

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Only brought onto my radar if I felt

something was wrong in the session.

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And then I'd be, ruminating

going, what happened?

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What happened?

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What happened?

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What was wrong?

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What could I have done?

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They're mad at me.

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Maybe not to that extreme.

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it wasn't of my own decision to be honest.

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John: Yeah, for me, the first time

I ever had a coaching session review

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wasn't me that was reviewing it.

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I had to record it for someone else

to review, and that scared me and that

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made me realize I've never done that.

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And maybe I should, so I had to get a

coaching session reviewed and I got a

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lot of feedback and it wasn't all great.

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it was a lot of developmental feedback.

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It wasn't horrible.

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It wasn't tearing me to

shreds, but it was a lot.

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And it was there's so many

things I can be doing better.

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There's a lot of room for improvement,

which in some ways is good.

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There are others ways in which it made

me feel a bit I'm not all that, I'm not

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such a great coach as I want to be yet.

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there's work to be done, but it

did make me pick up a few things,

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notice what was really going on, and

see the value of, I've always seen

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the value of getting feedback, even

though it doesn't always feel good,

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even when it's your own feedback.

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Angie: Yeah, it's important.

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initially I was probably uncomfortable

with it, but it's because I was looking

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at it all wrong instead of looking

at it as a tool to better myself,

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because better coaching to me meant

reading a book, a new certification or

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something, and maybe that is still true.

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Learning something new.

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John: Yeah.

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Angie: Presenting it and practicing it.

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Even vocabulary.

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I just started getting into that,

another higher level of vocabulary

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that I'd like to use during sessions.

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But anyway, different story.

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John: Okay, we'll wait

for that to kick in,

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Angie: You're so funny.

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And it's true, It is very true.

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the real truth of the

matter is now I look for it,

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I'm not uncomfortable with

self-evaluation anymore.

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And I actually wish I had more opportunity

to even put it out there to other people

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Hey, listen to this recording of my call.

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What are your thoughts?

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Because we've learned to be self-aware

instead of self-conscious as coaches,

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you and I after all these years.

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But really, who?

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Telling us like we're

getting it right or wrong.

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Co clients might think we're

great and we might actually suck.

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We might be just really keeping

them comfortable and it feels good.

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So what's the tool,

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John: There's so many

things, look, I have this.

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Theory, I do think good feedback

should make you feel a little bit

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uncomfortable because if it's not,

you're kind of in your comfort zone.

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You're you're just hearing

what you expect to hear.

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You're not really getting

anything that's challenging you.

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So the discomfort shouldn't

be making you feel like crap.

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It should be making you feel

there's room to grow or there's

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some things I can improve on.

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And there's something to develop

here because if you are only hearing.

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Good things, you're not

getting valuable feedback.

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we want to hear what we do well, for sure.

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That should be definitely

included in our feedback.

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Look for what you do well in

your own personal reviews and

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if you're reviewing someone else

definitely should be doing that.

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And if you ever get a review from

somebody else, that is all negative,

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you should probably challenge

that and say, Hey, look, could

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you actually review this again?

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or add in some things that I actually did

well because there must be something and

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Angie: Yeah.

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John: yeah.

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But we do that for ourselves.

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we're our own worst critics

I think some of the time.

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But we should be able to at least

make ourselves feel a little bit

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challenged, hopefully in a healthy

way with our reviews and feedbacks.

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But I do think this is one

of the reasons why people are

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sometimes a bit scared of it.

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Angie: I'm actually taking a couple

of notes while we're talking today But

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you know, the other thing that kind of

got me into the mindset, the idea of

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evaluation, self-evaluation was when I

did work for this company, there were

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people much higher up the coaching totem

pole than myself who were listening.

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And watching, even sometimes live,

doing live coaching sessions.

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those are really tough to do

in front of people and to be

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rated by a group of peers.

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So there were levels and levels of

that, and I really think that that

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moment changed how I coached and my

perspective of the growth process because.

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I think I was always looking,

high performer, still recovering,

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overachiever my whole life.

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it kind of took me out of that space

where if I just allow it to be a

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tool to grow me incrementally as a

coach, there's nothing bad about that.

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Even if I don't get it perfectly

right, it's okay, but it was

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really, really uncomfortable in

the beginning and it wasn't even,

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I would hope to say to you that.

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If not for that experience with

that company, that at some point

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I might have said, maybe I need to

do a little self-evaluation here.

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I don't know that though, because

it didn't happen that way.

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So I don't wanna lie and pretend.

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John: I think there are times I've

experienced this, maybe you have

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as well, where you know that a

review that you might be getting

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from someone else could actually

be a bit of a pass fail situation.

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it, it can, it can affect your

future, but reviewing yourself.

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That's not the case.

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This is, this is not the

time to be hypercritical.

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This is the time to gather the data.

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Try, try and distance yourself a

little bit as if you are listening to

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someone else giving a coaching call.

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I know we can't completely

do that, but we can a bit.

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But try and get over that

you're hearing your voice back

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or seeing yourself on video.

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because, because people do feel

horrible about that and so.

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You don't want to, don't be

criticizing your appearance.

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Don't be criticizing the sound of your

voice, but you may want to notice other

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times where you didn't respond the

way that you wanted to or you would've

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preferred to have thinking back.

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Now with hindsight, you would've

preferred to have said this instead.

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Those are the kinds of

things that go right, great.

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Make a note of that 'cause that could

help you in future coaching sessions.

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This is much more have some

curiosity about this for yourself,

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but don't, don't hold, hold

yourself to a ridiculous standard.

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The goal is not to be perfect.

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The goal is to give yourself

something to improve.

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Angie: Yeah, and that's the thing.

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And implementation, I think is the key.

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It's the same way we would maybe challenge

a client, Hey, we just discovered this.

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We had this awareness, right?

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We discovered this awareness, we had this

awareness, this moment, this epiphany.

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Now what?

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What do I do with this?

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Oh, okay.

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There are some tools here.

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The things that I could improve upon,

expand upon that are great, right?

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Because it isn't this self-deprecating.

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It shouldn't be.

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It should be all positive.

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Even if you find I'm really great at

this, but I'm not so great at this.

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So implementation, you have

to even come up with a plan.

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all of our sessions are organic, right?

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In nature, so it's hard to say,

well, I'm gonna do this at this time.

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But I think bringing it to the forefront,

top of mind, and then implementation

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of that new practice, that is really

how we're gonna grow and expand.

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I mean, honestly, without

that type of, observation.

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How do we grow as coaches?

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How do we become better at what

we do beyond the book or the

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new certification or whatever?

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John: let me say this.

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when I worked in sales, one of

the things that we had to do,

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because our calls were recorded.

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We would have to, we would have

regular training and we would

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have to bring to those training.

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Sometimes it would be with

the owner of the company.

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Sometimes it would be with an external

trainer that had had to do the sales

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training, but we would have to bring

a recording of a call that went well

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and of a call that didn't go so great.

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and we would get complete round all around

feedback on that, on everything that

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went well and every, that didn't go well.

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So we were very clear on

what had to be improved upon.

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At first, that's incredibly uncomfortable,

but after a while, you really do come

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to value it, and you get a lot of growth

a lot quicker when you're getting that.

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I'm wondering though, do you

ask your clients for feedback?

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And if you do, how often do you

think we should be doing that?

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Angie: Yeah.

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So.

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Okay.

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There's a couple of things I do.

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The first thing I do is after

each, at the end of each session,

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I don't say, oh, what'd you love?

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What did you like?

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I don't ask that.

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I ask, what was a value?

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What was, what was a value for you today?

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And it's not because I need them to tell

me how great I am or how I'm not so great.

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It's me kind of diving into

what's resonating with them and

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understanding that more clearly.

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The second thing though is.

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Depending on how many sessions

of what package they purchase.

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if somebody purchases 26 sessions, which

is essentially a six month period, I

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will do the halfway mark and just do

a very strategic questionnaire that

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they get from me just so I understand

whattheir perception is of not just

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the actual coaching, but what would you

like to see more of from your coach?

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Do you feel you need

to be more challenged?

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Most people, I would say 85 plus percent

actually really do a great job with that.

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I have had the people that are well,

she should be nicer, or it's things

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low level things, which tells me that

they're still uncomfortable with the

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process, but that's something that I do.

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And then at the end I

will do the same thing.

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What was your overall experience?

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And I give them opportunity to not

just answer yes or no or do a rating.

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There's opportunity for

them to speak to me.

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And then if I'm working with a

corporate, a corporate client,

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who hired me to train or coach, I

should say, multiples of people.

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So not only does the client get it,

but then the corporation gets it

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as well, because I need to know how

this is working outside of these

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beautiful sessions that I'm delivering.

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So I do ask halfway through

and then again at the end,

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John: Which we're saying is good advice.

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think we have touched on this before

in episodes, this is especially

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important if you do work in a

team with other coaches or another

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organization with other coaches, if

you have people working with you.

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You should probably be not just

reviewing your own calls, but reviewing

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each other's calls and coming together

to do that in the same kind of way

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becausedunno if you remember this, but

when we were both working for the same

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organization for a while, I was trying

to get them to implement that we would

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regularly review each other's calls

and have co coach meetings to do that.

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I don't think they were super excited

about doing it, and I'm pretty

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sure they never implemented it.

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but I was really pushing for it

because I thought if we were hungry

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for development, hungry for growth.

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And to me this was one of the

easiest ways to get that happening.

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I'm not saying we didn't get any

development when we were there.

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We did.

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this could have been much more

valuable feedback to see how each

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other, how other coaches doing the

same kind of thing are working.

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What kind of questions are they asking?

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Learn from each other.

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where was something they

could have done better?

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Where was something they did really

well that you would want to emulate?

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Super

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Angie: Yes.

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Yeah, I was just going to bring up, if

you are a solopreneur, if you are that

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person, you're a coach, you sit in a

home office or my friend John here, he

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travels to an office that is just his, and

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John: Until the end of this week.

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Yeah.

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Angie: Okay.

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And we'll talk more

about that later, right?

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But, if you are that person who's

generally alone, I think if you're

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outside of an organization that is

specifically geared toward coaching,

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where hopefully you are being

challenged and always getting reminded

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of your own personal growth, right?

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Because that company has an

interest in you doing well,

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in delivering great sessions.

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Because if not.

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Somebody might sign on

once and then that's it.

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The name of the game is You're done.

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It's not great.

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It sounded good.

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So they have an interest in you growing.

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But if you lose that opportunity,

which is bringing me to what you

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just said, it is extremely valuable

for you to bring in people that.

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You trust andget it right.

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They understand coaching.

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I certainly couldn't ask somebody

I know a friend or a family member

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that's not in this field to listen.

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Even if they listen to a

podcast, they're like, wow.

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They think we're superheroes when they

hear us talking here on a podcast.

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It's a very different dynamic.

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But yes, I think there is great

value in utilizing the people that

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you trust to challenge you and say,

I think you did these things really

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well and this I felt got dropped off.

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Or, you and I did this recently, right?

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we kind of did this, and I have to

be honest, I dunno if I ever told you

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this, John, but I was uncomfortable.

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John asked me for feedback and I

had to look for it because it was

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a great session, but there was a

specific purpose behind this, right?

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That we did this.

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without getting into all of that.

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It was really uncomfortable for

me 'cause I adore him and love

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him and think he's amazing.

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So for me to come back and say, well

I think this, and he listen, anything

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that I gave him in terms of feedback, he

did receive well, which is why I don't

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think, utilizing the people you know and

love is a great idea because I initially

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was uncomfortable and I had to, I

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John: know that.

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I'm sorry.

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I.

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Angie: No.

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No.

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What do you mean there's

no, he's so funny.

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But I wanted to, because there was a

specific outcome that we were looking

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for, so I had to push past my love

and affection and put on my trainer

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cap, if you will, trainer, coach hat.

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' cause I was that person and really be,

I felt a, not harsh, but I was Hey, this

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was great, but this wasn't so great.

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I hope that that was, I don't know.

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We never talked about it again, but

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I

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John: We didn't need to.

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Angie: Even outside of the

reasonable, we're still here.

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Right?

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this is good.

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I would hope that even beyond what

the purpose was for that exercise,

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that maybe there's pieces that you

took away and said, I really should

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consider that or think about that.

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John: Hundred percent.

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Angie: excellent value in having of give

you that overarching Hmm, who are you as a

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John: don't, I really appreciate

that you did that, especially now

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I understand how that it was a

bit challenging for you as well.

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So thank you.

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Thank you even more.

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But yeah, definitely that

was really useful for me.

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And I dunno what this says about how

different we are, but if the tables

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were turned, I would have no hesitation.

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Angie: Okay.

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You heard it here first, folks.

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He would come at me guns a blazing and

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John: Don't really like that.

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Angie: I,

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John: I just have a perspective

that I think feedback is a gift,

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and that's how I look at it.

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I think honest feedback or valuable

feedback that helps you to grow

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and develop, even if it's a bit

difficult to hear, is a gift.

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and I would never present it in a

way of though, oh, hey Angie, this

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sucks to you are terrible at this.

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It would never be that.

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It would be, all right, here's

what I saw you did well.

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Here's where I think there's some,

potentially there was some room for

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improvement or what I, or it might

even be, here's what you could have

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done differently, or here's how

I might have handled it in that

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situation, if that's of value to you.

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it may not even just be saying,

oh, you should have done this.

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It might be more here's another option

for you that, in that situation that you

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might find helpful in the future, or,

you know, what you did was actually fine.

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that's really what it is.

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But I just view feedback in that kind

of way I guess I don't think about that.

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You're going to, maybe you

might get upset about it.

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'cause I think, you know, knowing you

as well as I do and anyone who's likely

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to ask me for that, I do tend to assume

that if there's a problem with the

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feedback, they're gonna let me know.

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Angie: Well listen, I think

that part of the, is part of the

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beauty of getting feedback is

there has to be a mutual respect.

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There has to be a respect.

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If you are the person receiving

the information, you have to be

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able to take that constructively.

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'cause it's not criticism, I don't

believe in constructive criticism.

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I think that is a BS term.

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I think constructive

feedback is really important.

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And I think the person delivering

needs to be a little bit sensitive.

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for example, you know, if you guys

haven't figured out by now, John and

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I are very different in our approach.

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He's more zen.

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I'm more direct.

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As a direct person, that doesn't

mean that I can handle everything

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and it doesn't mean that it's not

going to strike a chord with me.

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Right.

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Hit a, hit a nerve and you as

the delivery person, need to be,

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I think conscientious of that.

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Be respectful, be professional

so that you don't really incite

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any type of negative inflammatory

feelings with the other person.

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There has to be that mutual respect.

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If you're going to put

yourself in that position.

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this just came to mind when you and

I did work for that same company.

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One of the things that I really did

appreciate though, was coming on board

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and having other, more not, I don't

even think more seasoned in terms of

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being in the industry, but more seasoned

in terms of working at that company.

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People listening, people

watching, participating.

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While we were doing what we were

doing, and I really loved that.

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I really respected and

valued getting that feedback.

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: 00:19:22

Not because I wanted to get it

right, but because I recognized

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how much I needed that.

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: 00:19:27

And sometimes this was a beautiful thing

and I'm sure this happened for you.

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: 00:19:31

Sometimes people were actually

able to say, when you handled this,

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I really thought that was great.

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I wouldn't have thought of that.

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Not because they're validating us, it

was becauseI was able to, even as a

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student, be the teacher, which to me

also kind of reflected that I do know

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what I'm doing and there is value.

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I can still provide value

even in my imperfection.

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: 00:19:56

So that was kind of a cool thing.

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: 00:20:00

John: I think that opportunity is

always there to be the teacher,

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: 00:20:03

even when you're the student.

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: 00:20:04

I think we should always keep that student

mentality even when we are very seasoned

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: 00:20:09

as that we are eternal students as well.

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: 00:20:11

we are learning even from

those who may have much less

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: 00:20:14

time and experience than us.

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: 00:20:15

But let me ask you this, because I

think this is important and maybe to

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: 00:20:19

start to wrap up with this as well.

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: 00:20:20

But what are the questions you

would ask yourself to review with?

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: 00:20:24

Angie: this is my rule of thumb, what

went really well in that session today?

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: 00:20:29

In terms of they, did they have any

epiphanies, ahas, wins, whatever.

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: 00:20:33

What went really well that I can expand

upon, and that might even come from my

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: 00:20:39

perspective along with what they valued.

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: 00:20:42

And then the second question, it always,

always is, what can I even do better?

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: 00:20:46

Even if it went fantastic, it felt great.

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: 00:20:49

They had an epiphany.

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: 00:20:51

It's the perfect storm of greatness

in a session, which by the

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way, doesn't happen every time.

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: 00:20:56

It doesn't happen all the time.

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: 00:20:58

It's probably less time than we

would think, but if it's great, okay,

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: 00:21:03

what, what can I still do better?

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: 00:21:06

Where did I feel off?

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: 00:21:08

Was I distracted?

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: 00:21:09

there's a bunch of questions

that I will literally go through

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: 00:21:12

as I revisit that session.

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: 00:21:15

Absolutely none of it negative though.

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: 00:21:18

John: and you may come, and if you record

your session and play it back, you may

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: 00:21:21

come up with some other things as well,

rather than just pulling from memory

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: 00:21:24

what you feel went well, what may be,

where there was room for improvement, you

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: 00:21:27

might start to notice some other things.

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: 00:21:30

I would always finish

up with a review with.

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: 00:21:32

what could I do better?

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: 00:21:33

what could I work on to be a

better coach going forward?

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: 00:21:37

when you are reviewing that as

well as reviewing what am I doing

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: 00:21:41

better that I've been working on?

435

: 00:21:43

Where have I made some improvements?

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: 00:21:45

Track your own progress with all of this.

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: 00:21:47

one of the things I have done

is put together a little.

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: 00:21:50

Review questions sheet for our listener

so that you can, it's gonna be in the

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: 00:21:54

show notes for you on YouTube description.

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: 00:21:56

You can go and download it free.

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: 00:21:57

You don't have to give us your

email address or anything like that.

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: 00:21:59

You can just go and get the PDF for free.

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: 00:22:01

And it's in the show notes just to give

you some simple questions that we've just

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: 00:22:04

been talking about, and a few more to help

you review your own sessions and know what

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: 00:22:09

to look for and what to keep working on.

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: 00:22:12

So we

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: 00:22:12

Angie: Oh, very cool.

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: 00:22:14

John: We hope you'll find that helpful.

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: 00:22:15

But, yeah, such an important area to

be reviewing and, getting the bit of

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: 00:22:20

external review as well where you can.

451

: 00:22:22

But definitely reviewing yourself

too, getting some client feedback.

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: 00:22:25

All of these things gonna help

make you an even more amazing coach

453

: 00:22:29

Angie: Yeah.

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: 00:22:29

There's no way you're going to grow,

if you get too comfortable in your,

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: 00:22:33

within yourself or with yourself,

you've stopped growing As a coach, and.

456

: 00:22:39

the new clients that you receive

may not recognize it, but if you

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: 00:22:43

have repeat clients, it will get

stale, like day old bread sitting

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: 00:22:47

out on the counter in Arizona.

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: 00:22:48

Heat.

460

: 00:22:49

Right.

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: 00:22:49

It will get stale.

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: 00:22:50

So this is definitely a practice that I

think most of us just don't do naturally

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: 00:22:56

and inherently unless we're taught

and it's illustrated, but great value.

464

: 00:23:01

We

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: 00:23:01

John: We recommend it.

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: 00:23:02

Angie: we want.

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: 00:23:03

Yeah, absolutely.

468

: 00:23:04

All

469

: 00:23:04

John: if you're not growing, if

you're not growing, you're stagnating.

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: 00:23:07

So, maybe it's, maybe you're at the

start of that, but there's no need to be,

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: 00:23:11

Angie: Yeah.

472

: 00:23:12

John: keep developing.

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: 00:23:13

The more you grow, the more

your clients can grow with you.

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: 00:23:15

Maybe some of them will just stay

with you even longer because of that.

475

: 00:23:18

You know, I've had clients I've worked

with for years because I've kept my

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: 00:23:21

development growing all that time.

477

: 00:23:22

I've

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: 00:23:23

Angie: Mm-hmm.

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: 00:23:23

John: I've worked with them as well.

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: 00:23:25

So much to get from this.

481

: 00:23:27

Angie, I think we've covered a lot here.

482

: 00:23:28

You happy that we've,

483

: 00:23:30

Angie: Love it.

484

: 00:23:30

John: some justice today.

485

: 00:23:32

Angie: Love it.

486

: 00:23:33

Yeah.

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: 00:23:34

John: Well, we'll come back

next time and do it again.

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: 00:23:36

We'll hit another topic, so make sure

that you don't miss that next week.