The Coaching Conundrum: Coaching Coaches in a Saturated Market

John: 00:00:00

Angie,

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Angie: John.

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John: you know when you scroll through

LinkedIn and it's just seems to be coach

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after coach coaching other coaches on

how to coach coaches who want to coach

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coaches, yeah, at some point we've just

gotta ask who's going to be left to coach.

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Angie: Exactly.

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It's like the coaching

version of inbreeding.

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Sooner or later, we're all gonna end

up with three eyes and a podcast.

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John: Oh, I love that image.

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I'm thinking of ding, ding, ding.

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D.

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We're having a bit of, what was that film?

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Deliverance.

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Angie: so concerning though.

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Like I know we're poking

fun, but it's the truth.

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Like everywhere you look, everybody

and their families wanna be a coach,

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to coach to a coach, to a this,

to a that, and it's everywhere.

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John: Well, let's, let's discuss,

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Angie.

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I noticed this, I was talking to a

coaching colleague of mine earlier and,

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uh, about 10 years ago here in Spain,

they discovered coaching so thereabouts,

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it seemed that anyone and everyone

was suddenly wanting to be a coach.

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It didn't last all that long,

maybe about 12 months when people

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realized it wasn't that easy.

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And then a country where

people didn't really know or

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understand coaching that well.

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Uh, what seemed like a very

easy business to set up was not.

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And, uh, they, they weren't

getting clients and, you know,

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all, it all kind of faded.

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But the, the hunger for people

to want to do this was, was

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Angie: Was,

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John: And I, I see it.

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So many different places that there's

just more and more coaches all the time

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and coaches are coaching coaches and

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Angie: yeah.

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John: are, are all sorts

of different areas.

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But what, I mean, this is maybe a

little bit of a sort of state of

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the industry kind of conversation as

well, but what, what do you notice?

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What do you see when we talk about this?

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Angie: Well, I think, you know,

uh, sorry, I hate to bring this

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up because as you're talking, you

know, I think that COVID shifted the

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entire dynamic of coaching globally.

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I really do.

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I think that coaching

was a growing industry.

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In and of itself, and you have to become,

um, you know, really good at deciding like

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where to go next and who do I wanna be?

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And the narrative shifted, right?

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It became a, instead of like a

desire for coaching, I really wanna

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do this, I'm passionate about it.

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It became the, I'm gonna be my own boss.

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How can I do that with, you

know, no overhead little x, y, z.

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Like, it's not, it's not dangerous.

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And I think that was, and that's why

to your point, you know, some people

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were like, yeah, I wanna do this.

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And then they backed out because

they realized it isn't whether

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the market is swamped or not.

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Uh, beginning a coaching

business is not easy.

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You might even be lucky.

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You might even have people and friends

and networks of people that you

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could initially coach, but then you

have to be creative and say, well,

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wait, I filled the pipeline Once.

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I have to keep doing that, they're

not gonna just come banging on my

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door going, where's coach Angie?

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So, do you know the

sustainability of a of a.

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Uh, a coaching practice I think has

shifted and many coaches have decided,

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Hey, let me coach the coaches,

let me teach them what I know.

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So there's this other

branch of coaching, right?

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That's not for the external masses.

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John: I definitely think it makes

sense that there's opportunity

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there because so many people have

come into the coaching industry.

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I mean, heck, we, we have a podcast for

coaches about coaching, so I guess, I

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guess we are part of the problem, but,

so, but I, I, um, I certainly felt

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very early on in my coaching career,

you know, I started thinking about

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niching and all that kind of thing.

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I was very

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Angie: Hmm.

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John: about the possibility

of the possibility of coaching

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coaches, and I was resistant to it.

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Simply

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Angie: Hmm.

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John: the, this sort of

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Angie: ourobouros

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John: of coaching where ultimately

it ends up eating itself.

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And uh, uh,

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Angie: Yeah.

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John: becomes, like you said this

in incest industry where everyone's

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coaches coaching each other.

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It's like, well, how,

how well really work?

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It seems wrong.

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I can't necessarily completely put

my finger on exactly why that's

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wrong, but it just feels wrong.

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And, uh, and I still have.

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I don't have resistance to working

with coaches anymore, but I do

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not want to be them in the sort of

life coaching kind of situation.

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don't know how, how you feel about it,

but, uh, what, what, what do you think?

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Angie: Well, I think, I think

we've become the, you know,

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next gen in, in coaching, right?

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In the coaching world.

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It's this next generation, if you will.

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Let me show you how everybody is

selling something to somebody.

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If you go on LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok,

like, I don't care where you, what's what?

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YouTube, it's, let me show you how.

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Let me show you.

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Let me influence you like influencers.

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It has become.

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Such a big bubble.

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The bubble keeps expanding.

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My question is, you know, to

what end is it gonna burst?

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You know, are we gonna come back in for

a landing and get back to the basics

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of what coaching is really meant to do?

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And again, you and I probably sound

like a little, I sound a little

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dated and saying this, perhaps

I'm dating myself, but you know.

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Where, where, what are we going

to, what is going to be the result?

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I don't think you and I could possibly

know that, and I think that the question

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I would probably wanna put back out to

our listeners is, are you coaching, we

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talked about this in the very beginning.

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Are you truly coaching coaches?

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Let's, let's differentiate,

or are you consulting?

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Did you walk away from your X, Y, Z

career because you wanted to be your

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own boss and now you're taking that.

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Trying to be influential with it.

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That doesn't make you a coach per se.

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So I think there's a lot of potential

pieces and narrate not narratives here.

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John: Yeah.

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Angie: Sorry, words today.

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John: In, its in coaching, in its

purest form a little different to

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consulting and certainly different, uh,

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Angie: Yeah.

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John: mentoring.

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Uh, and those are very valuable things and

certainly I think my practice, my business

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has moved and I'd say evolved really much

more into consulting and mentoring than

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coaching, uh, because I do not really

do a lot of pure coaching, like question

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based ontological coaching is not.

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not saying I can't do it, I, I

don't really want to do it and,

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uh, and generally have helped

someone mood to wear that.

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I do see value from it, but, you

know, I, I've, I've done those years

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of coaching and, and it's not where

I wanna go back to, but I do still

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see, uh, even just this week, people,

um, who are going into coaching.

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Because they're interested in

personal development, I guess, and

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uh, they see it as an easy option.

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It is a super low

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Angie: Ugh.

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John: to entry.

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A billion people have various coaching

courses and there's a, a million others

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who will, uh, supposedly teach you how

to get up to six or seven figures with

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your coaching business, allegedly.

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And, and I just thought, well,

how many people, how many

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coaches actually achieve that?

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I think it's a very small,

very small percentage.

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Angie: I think that dynamically it's

become a little bit plug and play.

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I, and that's where I think

people, how it's, I think how it's,

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um, observed from the outside.

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Is it that it's plug and play.

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And I think that a lot of these

creators are doing exactly that.

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They're creating plug and play apps,

programs, processes, that's diluting

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the actual coaching industry because

somehow we all get lumped into it.

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Do you understand what I'm saying?

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Like all of a sudden it's like,

well, I'm a one-to-one coach.

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I do what you don't like to do.

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But I also do workshops, group coaching,

you know, you name it, I speaking because

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my business model has expanded at my core.

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I am still a coach, even though there

are moments when I consult, right?

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So if you work for X, Y, Z, certain

companies, they don't even allow that.

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They're like, you're a coach.

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That's what you do all day, every day.

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I like working for myself

because I have the freedom.

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It's not just to be, I don't

like being my own boss.

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I have to motivate myself.

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I have to pay the bills.

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I have to schedule, and I

have to seek out new business.

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That's the hard part.

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Being my own boss is the

hard part of what I do.

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So yes, as my naturally, my

business has, has scaled.

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But at the same time I do.

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I mean, I just feel like this major

influx, it's like this tsunami of let me

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coach you and teach you how to coach and

teach you how to build your business.

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I'm like, really?

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Did you ever have a coaching business?

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Because most of the people,

you're smiling, you know, most

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of the people or organizations,

companies that are offering, let

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me show you how to build this.

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Have never been a coach

a day in their life.

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And I think that matters.

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I'm not saying by the way, that there are

not processes that we can all use that

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overlap through industry, by industry.

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That might work in terms of getting

you marketed and getting you out there.

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But most of the people out there

offering and doing this as the

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differentiator between you and me.

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We're not part of the problem.

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We are still at our core part of the

solution because we are not sitting here

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going here's, and who knows, maybe we

will create a process at some point.

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We've talked about it, but it's

still, we are how many years combined

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in the industry, like 50 plus.

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John: yeah.

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Over 50 years between us.

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Yeah.

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Angie: All of our 50 years between us.

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So we're actually taking it

from the experiential space,

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not the gimmicky space.

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Quick and like, you know, we talked

about like, oh, if I give you this

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certification, now you're a coach.

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I call crap.

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I call crap.

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That's the different, honestly,

would you listen to me speak?

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Would you listen to me teach about

how to sell medical supplies?

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If I never sold a medical supply a day,

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John: Probably not.

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Yeah.

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Angie: I could be great at sales,

doesn't mean I could sell that.

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Say that again?

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John: Yeah, this is ethos,

this is credibility.

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Angie: Yeah.

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John: think most, most probably, most

coaches lack it to a, to a greater degree.

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But then say that I probably did,

when I started off as a coach, I had

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to, had to build it up over time.

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Didn't want to really face up to that.

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May have even done a little bit of the

old, fake it till you make it in the early

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Angie: I.

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John: but, uh.

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It was a different time, but, but

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Angie: Well listen, experience doesn't

happen until you gain it, right?

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That's the truth.

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Everybody starts, even surgeons have

their very first solo surgery, and I would

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like to think that they aren't faking it.

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However, as they experience external,

out of the, uh, textbook challenges,

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they learn how to craft or, or hold in

their craft so they become better at it.

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John: yeah.

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Angie: like to think of us the same way.

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That's where I feel like it's not

really a fake until you make it.

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It's I have to do my very

first session in order to gain

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experience and compound that.

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John: you don't really want to go to

the bikini wax on trainee day, right?

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Do you?

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So, yeah,

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Angie: I know people that do that,

and they're out their flipping mind,

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but yes, but you can pick and choose.

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You can pick and choose.

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Somebody might just say, you know

what, tell me a little bit about who

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you are and what you've done, and

my experience is through B-B-B-B-B.

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Well, okay.

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How many sessions have you done?

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You're my first.

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You're my first.

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John: And it, it

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Angie: If they ask.

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John: be.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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It depends.

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It depends on the situation.

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It can be, um.

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I do know this.

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I know that there are people who have

taken coaching courses or just done

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online free courses or book courses,

programs, and they then essentially

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turned what they've learned from

someone else into their own program.

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I've seen this with marketers as well.

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Taking coach marketing programs

from other people and repackaging

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them, rebranded, rebranding them.

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As their own programs, sometimes

even, uh, with using content

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from other people's programs.

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Um, shameless, completely shameless

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Angie: Well, that's just legal suicide.

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If you ask me, somebody's gonna

figure you out some at some point.

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John: It, it should be right.

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It, it absolutely should be.

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But you know, this is, it's kind of, I

think just comes to go, goes to showing

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that there's a lot of crap out there and,

and I think that's the case in, in the

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Angie: Yeah.

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John: in general as well.

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There's, there's a million people

calling themselves coaches, but

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how many of those coaches are.

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Good

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Angie: Yeah.

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John: it's, it's hard to know.

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It is really hard to qualify and as

much as the industry has been kind

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of trying to qualify these things and

standardize things, it's never gonna be

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completely the case because the industry

is never going to be fully regulated.

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I can't see it happening anyway.

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Angie: Well, listen, unless

you're a, like, you know,

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ICF or you know, what is it?

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The one in the uk, um,

that's the equivalent of ICF.

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John: Oh, the, um, well we

have the EMCC here, which

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Angie: Yes, yes.

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John: which is the European

equivalent, so, yeah.

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Angie: Yeah.

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So I think if you're not even a part

of that, because nobody is, like

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you're saying, nobody's saying, oh,

Angie, in order for you to be a coach,

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you must be, you know, certified in

some way, shape, form, or fashion.

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And I think the reason why it's not is,

or it, it's so subjective, is because.

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Coaching is so subjective, right?

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There isn't one I, I would say to

you, even if I'm delivering a program,

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when I've worked for companies and I'm

delivering their program, even if I'm

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delivering the same themes, the same

topics with 25 different clients each

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week, those sessions are very individual.

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They're very, they're different.

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They differ.

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None of them is the same.

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So how do you actually.

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You know, how do you really

actually quantify a good coach?

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How do you, you know, how

do you really do that?

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And I think that becomes the question.

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And sometimes people will

look at credentialing and say,

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wow, this looks really great.

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Well, not always.

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I know lots of people that are

life blown education based coaches,

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learning as many things as they can

from as many people as they can,

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because they feel like it validates

them and they have like five clients.

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Because they're not

running a business, right?

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They're, they're hobbyists, if you

will, and that diminishes and dilutes

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the reputation of what we're doing.

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So I think then comes along like,

oh, I can't make it out there.

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Let me try and let me, let me

go for that low hanging fruit.

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John: I, I do think, I do think, uh, you

know, a lot of people say that in, in

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personal development and professional

development, there's a big trust deficit.

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And, and these are some of the

reasons why that's the case.

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Um, because there's a lot of people

who are operating and with not

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knowing what, not really knowing

what they're doing and not really

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being up to scratch to deliver it.

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Um, thinking it's kind of an easy option.

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And there's also a lot of scammers

out there who are looking to plug

321

: 00:15:59

in and, and drain as much money

out of the, uh, industry as they

322

: 00:16:03

possibly can, and they disappear.

323

: 00:16:05

Angie: disappear.

324

: 00:16:06

John: disappear just as

quickly as they arrive

325

: 00:16:08

Angie: Sure.

326

: 00:16:08

Absolutely.

327

: 00:16:10

John: that's what out there and

it damages trust in the industry.

328

: 00:16:12

I don't know that we can really do

that much about it other than try

329

: 00:16:15

and differentiate ourselves for the,

from those things and try and create

330

: 00:16:19

a deeper level of trust with the

people who might want to work with us.

331

: 00:16:22

And I think there are

definitely ways to do that.

332

: 00:16:25

It takes time and, and it does take

some effort to do it, but it's.

333

: 00:16:28

Completely worth it.

334

: 00:16:30

You know, even things like us

having this show, you know, we've

335

: 00:16:32

got like, um, nearly, nearly

70 episodes now of this show.

336

: 00:16:37

Um, that does give us

a level of credibility.

337

: 00:16:40

It's like we clearly haven't

just turned up to try and milk

338

: 00:16:42

the coaching industry for money.

339

: 00:16:45

We're trying to do, trying to

deliver some value, but also with the

340

: 00:16:48

things that we talk about over time.

341

: 00:16:51

You get a sense that.

342

: 00:16:52

do at least have some idea what

we're talking about and we have

343

: 00:16:55

insights and, uh, experience in the

industry that hopefully are proving

344

: 00:17:00

to be valuable to you as well as

345

: 00:17:02

Angie: Yeah.

346

: 00:17:03

John: So, um, so we are

347

: 00:17:04

Angie: Yeah.

348

: 00:17:05

John: just sort of out there.

349

: 00:17:06

Okay.

350

: 00:17:06

It takes time to build that up as well.

351

: 00:17:08

But I'd say.

352

: 00:17:09

You know, even, uh, a, a book or a, a

podcast, guest appearances and things

353

: 00:17:15

like, these are all things that can start

to build up some credibility for you.

354

: 00:17:18

Just so you, you can demonstrate

to people that you make sense, that

355

: 00:17:23

you are competent, that someone that

they would want to work with, not

356

: 00:17:27

just someone who's like, gimme your

money, buy my course, buy my stuff.

357

: 00:17:31

Angie: It's so interesting 'cause as we're

having the conversation, I'm reflecting

358

: 00:17:34

on how many of my own clients, right?

359

: 00:17:39

People that I've coached,

whether within my own company

360

: 00:17:41

or other companies that have.

361

: 00:17:44

Like, I'm gonna be a coach now.

362

: 00:17:46

And it's so funny because several of them,

not all of them, I don't wanna exaggerate.

363

: 00:17:51

Let's just say if there were 10

of them, it's probably more, I'm

364

: 00:17:54

just gonna use the round number.

365

: 00:17:56

If 10 of them said I'm gonna

do this, more than half, maybe

366

: 00:18:00

three have actually stuck to it.

367

: 00:18:02

But not even at the, like in the way

they initially intended and they kind

368

: 00:18:07

of, you know, comment to me and say.

369

: 00:18:09

You know, you made it look so easy.

370

: 00:18:11

I thought I could do it.

371

: 00:18:13

That statement in and of itself,

and I'm not gonna say who said what

372

: 00:18:17

when, but you know who you are.

373

: 00:18:19

But the truth is, you made it

look so easy, and I thought to

374

: 00:18:23

myself, but it's anything but easy.

375

: 00:18:26

It's not easy.

376

: 00:18:28

If you're really delivering value

and you're not plug and play gimmicky

377

: 00:18:32

or quick hit, get in and out, and

you're really looking at longevity

378

: 00:18:36

and building something that's

real, it isn't going to be easy.

379

: 00:18:43

So when they would say that to me, I

would kind of chuckle to myself like,

380

: 00:18:46

you know, this person quit their job

because I made coaching look easy.

381

: 00:18:50

Like did I do some kind of disservice?

382

: 00:18:53

'cause we never talked about

coaching in our sessions.

383

: 00:18:55

What do you mean?

384

: 00:18:56

But do you know what I mean?

385

: 00:18:57

Like.

386

: 00:18:57

That's the thing.

387

: 00:18:59

I think that kind of throws me.

388

: 00:19:02

You kind of, we talked about

this previously for a minute.

389

: 00:19:05

Like if people can't make it finding

pipeline building this business, they

390

: 00:19:11

go to a different tree, different fruit.

391

: 00:19:13

I don't want peaches, I want apples.

392

: 00:19:14

So they go to the apple tree

and they start saying, let

393

: 00:19:17

me come up with something.

394

: 00:19:18

Really, uh, whatever my sixth step

process to find you the best clients.

395

: 00:19:25

You're gonna earn six

figures in 18 months.

396

: 00:19:27

And who doesn't want that, you know?

397

: 00:19:31

It's gimmicky.

398

: 00:19:34

John: I, I look at it, I look

at it this way as well, um,

399

: 00:19:37

to become a coach, you are.

400

: 00:19:40

Essentially taking a product to market,

even though that product is you, a

401

: 00:19:44

product is you as a coach, that's what

402

: 00:19:45

Angie: Mm-hmm.

403

: 00:19:46

John: ultimate ultimately

selling to people.

404

: 00:19:49

Um, and, and certainly, you know, I'm

not gonna criticize anyone for, for just

405

: 00:19:54

saying, oh, this is, this is just what I

want to do and I'm gonna become a coach.

406

: 00:19:57

I mean, that's pretty much what I did

of, uh, like, oh, coaching seems amazing.

407

: 00:20:01

Let's goand do it.

408

: 00:20:02

And this is like early days of,

uh, professional coaching really.

409

: 00:20:05

But, um.

410

: 00:20:07

But that I, I did sort of follow

that path, but there were reasons

411

: 00:20:10

why I ended up sticking with it.

412

: 00:20:12

But what I didn't get and what, you know,

I wish I could tell myself now back then

413

: 00:20:17

it would've, uh, progressed me a lot

faster was, um, you can't just take a

414

: 00:20:22

product to market because you like it

or because it's what you want to do.

415

: 00:20:26

There has to be want or a need for what

you are going to look to offer, and.

416

: 00:20:33

It's okay.

417

: 00:20:34

Maybe you haven't got that completely

figured out yet, but you know

418

: 00:20:36

this is something you want to do.

419

: 00:20:38

But, well, if you haven't got that

completely figured out, now's the

420

: 00:20:41

time to decide, well, you know what?

421

: 00:20:44

What is the problem I'm solving?

422

: 00:20:46

Where is the pain that

I can help people with?

423

: 00:20:49

To, to improve something.

424

: 00:20:50

Maybe it's in their business,

maybe it's in their relationships.

425

: 00:20:54

Maybe it's some other,

some other life area.

426

: 00:20:57

Maybe it's confidence that

they're really lacking.

427

: 00:20:59

Whatever it is, you know, you, it

has to be something that people are

428

: 00:21:02

actually going to want help with.

429

: 00:21:05

That allows you to really focus in

say, all right, if you've got this

430

: 00:21:08

issue and you're the kind of person.

431

: 00:21:10

We maybe could work together,

uh, I can help you with that.

432

: 00:21:13

But otherwise, you know,

what's the, what's the value?

433

: 00:21:15

Just saying, I'm, I'm a coach.

434

: 00:21:17

Okay, what do you do?

435

: 00:21:18

I coach people.

436

: 00:21:19

What do you coach them about?

437

: 00:21:20

Well, whatever really life,

it's like, yeah, good luck.

438

: 00:21:26

Angie: Yeah, so listen, I'm actually

sitting here laughing, thinking,

439

: 00:21:29

could you imagine us on a pa a panel

of like our version of Shark Tank?

440

: 00:21:33

We can call it Coaching Shark Tank.

441

: 00:21:34

Like come pitch your business, pitch your

ideas, and we're gonna tell you whether

442

: 00:21:38

we're gonna invest in you or we're not.

443

: 00:21:40

Right?

444

: 00:21:41

Like, it's just funny because.

445

: 00:21:43

I feel like in that kind of scenario,

I don't know why this even popped

446

: 00:21:47

into my head today, but people are

really doing their due diligence.

447

: 00:21:50

They're putting their best foot

forward to present themselves, right?

448

: 00:21:55

Because they want something right.

449

: 00:21:57

How many people that you know that

you've experienced or observed that

450

: 00:22:03

actually go to those lengths to really

create a strong foundation for whether

451

: 00:22:09

you just wanna coach people or you

want to be a coach trainer, right?

452

: 00:22:14

I wanna train coaches on the

fundamentals of coaching.

453

: 00:22:18

I could come up with a really

comprehensive program and absolutely.

454

: 00:22:24

Show people how to be better coaches,

better business people, but we

455

: 00:22:29

kind of haven't done that, right?

456

: 00:22:30

You and I are starting at this level,

like let's just make it a conversation.

457

: 00:22:34

Let's see what people really need.

458

: 00:22:36

Let's develop what we, let's build

ourselves at square one before we start

459

: 00:22:42

throwing out and charging everybody

everything because we think we're

460

: 00:22:45

worth it with 50 years experience.

461

: 00:22:48

Do you know what I mean?

462

: 00:22:48

And we could, you and I know we've

talked about it, we could absolutely

463

: 00:22:52

create a phenomenal, what am I saying

here, but a phenomenal coaching

464

: 00:22:58

program that's comprehensive.

465

: 00:23:00

It isn't just about coaching

it's best practices, it's

466

: 00:23:03

business development, marketing.

467

: 00:23:06

And we could sell that to people, but

I think you and I have stayed away

468

: 00:23:09

from it at this time because we don't

wanna throw ourselves into that mix.

469

: 00:23:15

Right.

470

: 00:23:16

We're, we're just having

conversations right now and, and

471

: 00:23:19

we're good with that, but we could,

472

: 00:23:22

John: yeah, but I think there's an

element as well where we maybe hope

473

: 00:23:25

that we might get to a stage where,

where people are asking us for that.

474

: 00:23:29

That it would then make sense to do it.

475

: 00:23:31

Uh, at the moment it would be 'cause

we want to do it if we did it.

476

: 00:23:35

I think maybe the reason I'm staying

with this, like we, we want to, we

477

: 00:23:38

want to establish ourselves here.

478

: 00:23:40

Show people that we could help you with

479

: 00:23:42

Angie: mm-hmm.

480

: 00:23:42

John: business and your coaching

practice, and then hopefully get

481

: 00:23:46

the demand for that saying, Hey,

why don't you, do you have a course?

482

: 00:23:49

Do you have a program?

483

: 00:23:50

I think when we get to the point.

484

: 00:23:52

Which I think we will, where we start

getting those sorts of questions

485

: 00:23:55

from audience members on listeners

on a regular basis, then it will

486

: 00:24:00

make sense to create the product.

487

: 00:24:01

Then, uh, maybe, maybe there will be

a reason to do it sooner than that.

488

: 00:24:06

Uh, and we'll, we'll wait and see.

489

: 00:24:07

But at the moment I think that's, that's

kind of where I land with it maybe,

490

: 00:24:11

but maybe where we both are with that,

491

: 00:24:13

Angie: Yeah,

492

: 00:24:14

John: but

493

: 00:24:15

Angie: not, listen, we're not

looking to just cash in on it.

494

: 00:24:17

And again, I'm not saying that

for, you know, for all of you that

495

: 00:24:20

are out there doing your thing and

you wanna do plug, good for you.

496

: 00:24:24

That to me that's,

that's, that's your thing.

497

: 00:24:26

Good luck in the future.

498

: 00:24:28

Good luck with longevity.

499

: 00:24:29

I don't feel like it's a process

that you can rush if you really

500

: 00:24:33

wanna have that strong foundation.

501

: 00:24:35

You can't begin at the end.

502

: 00:24:37

You have to be able to look

at what the big goal is.

503

: 00:24:41

If it is just quick hit, oh, I can make

$50,000 in three months by doing this.

504

: 00:24:46

Have at it.

505

: 00:24:46

You're not what we do, and I'm

not diminishing that if that's

506

: 00:24:51

your intention, but I think

that's the whole point of this.

507

: 00:24:53

There's so much more of that happening

that it, I think, tends to cascade

508

: 00:24:59

over back to us where people even

question our value or what the

509

: 00:25:04

offering is because of the, yeah.

510

: 00:25:11

John: No, I, I think that you maybe

hit something really important there

511

: 00:25:14

that I think maybe, it hasn't been like

this is the sort of as clear as I'm

512

: 00:25:19

gonna present it here, that we have

at least had this intention of this.

513

: 00:25:25

And being of service to the people who are

more vocational about coaching than the

514

: 00:25:30

Angie: Mm.

515

: 00:25:30

John: perhaps more transactional about it.

516

: 00:25:32

And, um, and so I think that

has been very much the case.

517

: 00:25:35

Like we want to coach the coaches.

518

: 00:25:37

Coaches,

519

: 00:25:39

Angie: Yeah.

520

: 00:25:40

John: like it's a paradox to

521

: 00:25:41

Angie: Yeah,

522

: 00:25:41

John: the people who actually want to be

in coaching, the people who want to make

523

: 00:25:44

an impact, want to make a difference,

care about, care about coaching,

524

: 00:25:48

care, about the, the intricacies, the

development, all, all the, all the things.

525

: 00:25:53

Um.

526

: 00:25:54

You are our people.

527

: 00:25:55

If that's you, you know, it's like

that, that's definitely the, the

528

: 00:25:57

Angie: absolutely.

529

: 00:25:58

John: helping who we, who we started

this for the people who we feel know,

530

: 00:26:03

you are our tribe, we are your tribe.

531

: 00:26:04

That, that's, that's what

we are about as well.

532

: 00:26:06

Um, not that we don't care about

the, the money and business

533

: 00:26:10

side, but we definitely do.

534

: 00:26:11

We want to keep that included in,

in what we do in these episodes.

535

: 00:26:14

But there, there's nothing wrong

with coaching other coaches.

536

: 00:26:18

Not really, if that's so long

as that's who you have chosen to

537

: 00:26:21

help and not who you are ending

up helping because you can't get

538

: 00:26:24

clients anywhere else, uh, or you

539

: 00:26:26

Angie: Absolutely.

540

: 00:26:27

John: trying to keep, just

trying to keep a business afloat.

541

: 00:26:30

Um, it is maybe not, I, maybe not

ideal, but you know, I, I certainly

542

: 00:26:33

have ended up moving to creating a

product to help coaches create speaker

543

: 00:26:37

funnels and so to end up working

with coaches in that sense, but.

544

: 00:26:41

I'm not gonna avoid that, just 'cause

I don't wanna work with coaches.

545

: 00:26:43

I do.

546

: 00:26:44

I I love working with coaches.

547

: 00:26:45

Most of you are amazing people.

548

: 00:26:47

Um, so yeah.

549

: 00:26:49

Why, why not?

550

: 00:26:50

But the coaching industry were to

disappear, who would you be helping?

551

: 00:26:56

You know?

552

: 00:26:58

Angie: Right.

553

: 00:26:59

Yeah.

554

: 00:26:59

Yeah.

555

: 00:27:00

I know.

556

: 00:27:00

And I, I do, I, I agree.

557

: 00:27:01

I wanna kind of emphasize what you

said, that we're not putting down

558

: 00:27:05

what it, for those who wanna just

go out there and, and, and create

559

: 00:27:10

some kind of a program and, and,

and capitalize on it, good for you.

560

: 00:27:14

And that's, this is not, we're not

looking to diminish or beat that up, but.

561

: 00:27:19

We do things quite differently.

562

: 00:27:20

And the concern is, if you've already

been in the industry and you take

563

: 00:27:23

it very seriously, is that again,

you're somehow lumped into, ugh,

564

: 00:27:29

another coach, Ugh, another invite.

565

: 00:27:31

Ugh, another this, oh,

another brilliant scientist.

566

: 00:27:34

Another, you know, oh, another

program that's gonna really help me.

567

: 00:27:38

What's the differentiator?

568

: 00:27:40

Right?

569

: 00:27:40

And that's the challenge, is that

we now have to work harder at

570

: 00:27:44

differentiating ourselves because

there's so much to choose from.

571

: 00:27:50

You know, I went to a new store,

local to me the other day.

572

: 00:27:53

It just opened.

573

: 00:27:54

I'd never been in this particular store,

although I know they're nationwide stores

574

: 00:27:59

and I have to tell you, the biggest

aisles were candy with the most selection.

575

: 00:28:05

I mean, I don't mean just big in

terms of size with the most selection

576

: 00:28:08

was candy and ice cream and pizza.

577

: 00:28:13

I'm like, okay, I, yeah, no, I'm

gonna tell you the entire back of

578

: 00:28:18

the store, the length of the back

of the store was for the ice cream.

579

: 00:28:23

I don't eat ice cream, you know that.

580

: 00:28:24

But if I were to eat ice cream, I would be

so, I wouldn't even know where to begin.

581

: 00:28:31

Why does this one, it's

all about packaging, right?

582

: 00:28:34

Because I was like, Ooh, look at that one.

583

: 00:28:35

And I'm like, of course you love that one.

584

: 00:28:37

Look at the packaging.

585

: 00:28:38

I have no idea what the

substance is on the inside.

586

: 00:28:41

And I, I got so overwhelmed.

587

: 00:28:43

I was like, I couldn't

even buy this for anybody.

588

: 00:28:45

My husband loves ice cream.

589

: 00:28:46

I can't, I just have to walk away.

590

: 00:28:48

Let's just get 'em some

vanilla bean and call it done.

591

: 00:28:50

So, you know what I mean?

592

: 00:28:52

Like, don't become part of the back

aisle of the store of the ice cream.

593

: 00:28:58

Anyway.

594

: 00:29:00

John: You know, there's, um, there's

a lot, there's a lot of, um, in

595

: 00:29:04

advantages to being able to coach

other coaches, like, you know, people

596

: 00:29:07

understand what you're talking about.

597

: 00:29:09

You don't have to explain

necessarily so many things.

598

: 00:29:12

People, you know, you start talking about

values and stuff that people get it.

599

: 00:29:15

Um.

600

: 00:29:15

But

601

: 00:29:16

Angie: The

602

: 00:29:16

John: there, there's,

603

: 00:29:17

Angie: language.

604

: 00:29:17

John: the, the language is important

and you know where I'm going with

605

: 00:29:20

this because, um, I thought it would

be funny that there, there's a lot

606

: 00:29:23

of coaching language and, and a

lot of it's not really understood

607

: 00:29:27

outside of the coaching industry.

608

: 00:29:28

So I thought we'd just wrap up our show

today with a little bit of fun and we

609

: 00:29:32

are gonna play a coaching buzzword.

610

: 00:29:34

Bingo.

611

: 00:29:35

uh, so Angie,

612

: 00:29:38

Angie: don't even know what this is.

613

: 00:29:40

John: Have you got your

bingo card ready, Angie?

614

: 00:29:44

Angie: do.

615

: 00:29:44

I do.

616

: 00:29:46

John: All right.

617

: 00:29:46

When you get a line, you can shout

bingo and, and, and you'll win.

618

: 00:29:50

All right?

619

: 00:29:51

Angie: Okay.

620

: 00:29:51

Wait.

621

: 00:29:52

Yeah.

622

: 00:29:52

John: see if any of these words, if any

of these words are on your, uh, bingo card

623

: 00:29:57

for your coaching buzzword, bingo card.

624

: 00:29:59

All

625

: 00:30:00

Angie: Okay.

626

: 00:30:01

John: step into your power.

627

: 00:30:05

Angie: Okay.

628

: 00:30:06

John: Raise your vibration.

629

: 00:30:12

Abundance mindset,

630

: 00:30:18

inner child work

631

: 00:30:23

holding the space

632

: 00:30:28

manifestation.

633

: 00:30:32

Are there yet?

634

: 00:30:33

Bingo?

635

: 00:30:33

Not yet.

636

: 00:30:33

No.

637

: 00:30:34

Angie: I don't have bingo yet.

638

: 00:30:36

John: Evergreen Funnel.

639

: 00:30:38

Angie: Oh, bingo.

640

: 00:30:40

John: Hey, well,

641

: 00:30:41

Angie: I win.

642

: 00:30:43

Yay.

643

: 00:30:43

John: win.

644

: 00:30:44

You've, uh, you've got the, those,

those coaching buzzword you hope you're

645

: 00:30:47

playing along on the screen at home.

646

: 00:30:49

Um, but that there's just show

look when you're speaking with our

647

: 00:30:52

clients, just know that there are

certain words, phrases, and things

648

: 00:30:54

that we use in our coaching sessions.

649

: 00:30:56

In the coaching world, there's

sometimes we do need to translate

650

: 00:30:59

or put into layperson and

speak for our clients as well.

651

: 00:31:02

Even sometimes with our clients who

are coaches, let's just make sure that

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: 00:31:05

people understand what we're saying.

653

: 00:31:06

But I think that's enough from us today.

654

: 00:31:08

Hey, look, um, Angie doesn't even know

this yet, but next week we are speaking

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: 00:31:11

to, uh, we're speaking to a guest and he's

gonna be talking to us about, about having

656

: 00:31:17

as coaches creating our books and having

a ghost writer to help us create our books

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: 00:31:21

and why that could be a good thing for us.

658

: 00:31:22

He's an expert in this.

659

: 00:31:23

Are we gonna have a fun conversation?

660

: 00:31:25

So if you're even thinking, oh,

I'd like a book, but maybe struggle

661

: 00:31:27

with finding the time to do it,

you're not gonna want to miss our

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: 00:31:30

next episode, so join us for that.

663

: 00:31:32

Angie: Very excited to hear that.

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: 00:31:34

Looking forward.